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I really am curious.
Thanks
Sorry if this is OT but has anyone talked about Cold Fusion MX 7? You can "program" directly in Java, create custom tags in C++ or Java. Its now more Object Oriented than ever...
Of course, that's very cool.
And actually, that's the same reason why I say Asp.Net is far superior to anything like the classic ASP or PHP.
I hanv't had the opportunity to really code a whole lot of ASP.Net but the com objects and everything in it look great.
Also, a note to those who think CF Installs are too expensive. I think a CF Install on a Linux box with Apache would be the same price as ASP or ASP.net on a Windows Machine running IIS.
Also Two IP Developer versions are free to anyone to download!
So do I, for the same exact reasons.
I would have a hard time contributing to a community where my free hard work helped line someone else's pocketbook.
How is that you are not helping someone else's pocket book with open source? What, there are NO profitable sites that run OS soft? Come on...money always comes out somewhere, in point B or point C.
I am not protecting M$, but am actually neutral on this "free open source, lets' help the world" song.
are there any other bechmarks?
Well said. I think everything else follows from there. Including the fact that the majority of the web runs on open source and it does not appear that this will change any time soon.
As far as the abilities of ASP versus PHP goes, as oft mentioned, they can both ultimately do what you want, it's just about personal preference.
But performance... People have got to be kidding if they think that an ASP app running on a MS server is in any way capable of outperforming a Perl/PHP/Etc. app running on Apache/Linux. That's probably the silliest thing I've heard this week :-)
PHP is better.
I'm not just talking from my rump - I've used both professionally for several years each (including a variety of flavours of ASP).
I like ASP, especially with C# (VB being awkward with ugly syntax). It's more complex but retains elegance. I build with ASP.NET now, and it's a good platform for heavy OOP and simple scripting.
However IMO PHP outclasses ASP because it's easier to use for beginners, and still robust and powerful enough to satisfy advanced developers. It may not score higher in every category, but performs so well across the board that it is the clear winner by appealing to the widest audience.
ASP is like Apollo Creed
PHP is Rocky Balboa
it doesn't matter who won the match - Rocky was the audience's favourite
Isn't traditional ASP dead? As a career move, ASP would be the single dumbest choice a web developer could make. For having spent the last few months looking for ASP jobs, I can tell you that ASP work is extremely rare and these remaining legacy systems won't be around forever. (If you know where all these jobs are hiding, then, please, I urge you to get in touch with me.)
PHP, at least, is well supported by the developer community and it's slightly more in demand. On the other hand, if you don't like the language, you don't have the option to switch to something like JScript or Python. By choosing JavaScript, for instance, you can transfer this knowledge (and some code libraries) on the client side, which can be pretty nifty.
Actually, I'd say your choice depends mostly on what you consider yourself to be. If you're a web designer looking to add some intelligence to your dynamic pages, then ASP/JavaScript can be an easy move. You may also want to take a look at Ruby on Rails. If you're a webmaster looking to add interesting features to a dynamic web site, then I would suggest PHP, just because it's so widely supported. If you want to pride yourself in being a serious developer, then you should probably look elsewhere. Unless you have solid experience in a "real" platform like Java or .NET, chances are you will be dismissed as a mere hobbyist.
Just humble opinions from a disabused ex ASP developer.
glad we could draw you into posting ;)
My first experience with the www was using Netscape. It did what I wanted it to do so I never thought to change. I looked at IE, Opera, and all the other various browsers and found none really kicked rear on Netscape. Like txbakers said, he likes the suspension on the Honda, I like the fuel system on the Toyota. The only REAL exception to this would be Mosaic, I cried when they stop developement on that product.
Back to the point, .asp vs. .php, Windoze vs. Macintosh, Firefox vs. IE, whatever vs. whatever, it makes no difference if the webmaster hasn't installed Human Brain 0.b.9 (beta development is expected to continue for a few more million years). These choices make no difference as long as webmasters force me to render images in "millions" of colors when my own Human Eye 0.b.13 can only see 256. Can you beleive the nerve of some of these webmasters hijacking my own font preferences. That's just rude in my opinion. All a browser needs in these situations is a handy "back" button. Bloatcode is also a common problem. When I see <p>&#nbsp;</p> I could just scream. Are two pages of <head> and <meta> code really needed?
Webmasters, please remember, 90% of the end users aren't smart enough to disable Outlook Express and use another e-mail client, for no other reason that avoiding a majority of malware.
.asp vs .php? Both are bloated, both are over developed. Both have way too many bells and whistles.
Oh, by the way, Apache came installed on my computer, so I am using (learning) php and mysql. I figure I can eat a pizza every other day for a month with all the money I saved.
.asp vs .php? Both are bloated, both are over developed. Both have way too many bells and whistles.
To be clear, Bells and whistles have nothing to do with ASP or PHP. ASP and PHP are scripting languages/technologies designed to make dynamic web pages. (either database driven or otherwise dynamic).
Bells and whistles to which the poster refers are products of HTML markup and have no direct relation to either ASP or PHP or any other server side technology.
A faster development enviroment, coupled with it's in built functions (auto PDF creation, anybody?), native support for Java creations and C++ calls means I like it.
But hey, I'm just worried about the Adobe purchase. In the Honda / Toyota parellel, I hope I'm not driving a Rovor ;)
webmasters force me to render images in "millions" of colors when my own Human Eye 0.b.13 can only see 256
Russ49, you seriously need to have your eyes checked if that's the case.
I am not giving any "scientific" links here, this is as simple of an answer as one can get: [ask.yahoo.com...]
[edited by: Xoc at 7:09 am (utc) on April 26, 2005]
Also, comparing mod_rewrite to IIS's ISAPI is basically saying "well, with IIS you could write your own mod_rewrite". IIS is weak. Ease of administration? MS doesn't even alphabetize virtual hosts in the MMC! Try administering a IIS server with 300 virtual hosts. No way to search for a hosts configuration other than to page through the list. I could go on for hours about how poor IIS is. For any serious utilization, there is no comparison between apache and IIS. There's an inherent stability benefit gained by the one-process-per-connection model.
Jeff
MS doesn't even alphabetize virtual hosts in the MMC!
Yeah, I agree that is damn annoying?
For having worked in both environments, I see it as a trade off between simplicity and power. These companies are already running Microsoft software everywhere in their offices. Why would they make an exception of hiring Apache/UNIX experts if all that they want to do is serve Web pages to their clients and partners? There's less of an overhead in running MS technology. You don't need to have highly qualified people to run and manage IIS, unless, of course, you want to accomplish something that Microsoft hasn't pre-cooked for you. In which case, it gets more complicated...
The real issue here isn't a technical one, but a business one. Computers do not belong to computer experts anymore. Without turning this thread into a Microsoft vs. Open Source argument (please don't let this happen!), I'd say that Microsoft empowers the average user while Open Source tends to empower the knowledgeable techie. Would I be a competent Apache/UNIX service company I would try to find a business opportunity in that, but I'd have to hurry...
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Oops, I just realized that I replied to an old message from page 1. Sorry. I hope you can still make something of my contribution.
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Thanks jatar_k, you're welcome. I think I'll hang out for a while and learn a bit more about this webmastering business...
Well reading that thread was for me - search more ... but I choose ASP ... Why ... let me explain.
... sory, english is not my native ...
I've been programming now for the past 6 years, started as embeded programer in pure C, using tornado debuggers and so on. In the free time a friend of mine asked me to help him out with a dynamic web page, simple administration of simple products. He said it shuld be a PHP and MySQL. Perfect. I dont know nothing abut them. But PHP was similar ti C ... so it went smoothly.
The project was finished in a month, I liked PHP a lot. Maybe because of using Linux on my workstation and saw a Windows only when visiting HR department.
A major company came to us asking us to build a new corporate website for them. Not just one site, not just one language (russian inbetween), not just one administrator. I was so confident that I just shot Apache/PHP/MySQL magic trio ... and the took me out feet in front. We didn't get the job. WHY? Their answer was IIS/ASP. And I didnt have a clue about M$ web tech.
The story would finish, if they didnt choose the wrong guy. So they asked us again and they were clear about M$ platform. So I started to learn JScript, VBScript ... awful at the beginning.
NOW. The project was built up before ASP.NET emerged. We had no SQL on the DMZ. So I had to use Access (bljak) and text files. I chose XML, since it was very hot new tech then and acted like a database. And here is the thing why ASP, I mean VBScript and IIS over PHP and Apache ... the MSXML parser running on M$.
M$ XML parser is far the best and the fastest on the field. It's ease of use, DOM implementation is relly like reading RFC. For me, MSXML4 and IIS6 are the best products M$ developed EVER. And they are relly cheap now. MSXML parser is for free, windows 2003 web edition is comparable to Red Hat distribution.
Of course, I am still looking into open source (JSP, C# on Apache, Perl, Python), considering a lot of xml parsers to port my lead app to linux. But until now ... NO! GO!
uwebe
