hand-typing html in FP and DW

do wysiwygs add code to hand-typed html?

[HarlsenC]

This may seem like an extremely stupid question but if I typed out the html code myself in FrontPage's html view or Dreameaver's code view - would the programs add the extra code they've got the reputation to add?

For instance, if I typed out a page of html in FP and saved as index.htm. When I next opened index.htm would FP have added extra code?

HarlsenC.

[benihana]

not sure about frontpage, dreamweaver might offer to clean things up if youve e.g. missed a closing tag.

when your actually typing it will just suggest attributes etc for you to choose from.

[limbo]

DW will not add extra code. but if it identifies broken links it will suggest html for change by highlighting them. As for adding new tags this will not happen unless you do. however your code spacing and positioning for layout can be affected - e.g. you could layout sections of code so it is clearer and DW will sometimes 'wrap' it to it's default when you save it.

ta

Limbo

[OrlandoTodd]

Not sure... i stay clear of them, but know several designers who go with Dream Weaver. I think there's a setting to have it not adjust code.

I use Arachnophilia. If you want to just work on the code alone, it's a simple note pad type with some short cut tags and tag coloring. No extraneous code.

[bill]

FP 2003 (and 2000 & XP) will not add extra code if you tell it not to. FP does have an HTML formatter which will move code around, but this can be turned off or customized to your liking. All extraneous tags can be turned off in FP 2003. Earlier versions would add the FP meta tag, but nothing more if you're hand editing the HTML.

[koocw]

Yes they will, though I guess it depends on what technologies you use in your website.

E.g. for XHTML 1.0 Strict, my notepad file got corrupted when the!DOCTYPE declaration got shifted to somewhere in the middle of the file :(. The CDATA tags around Javascript code (required in XHTML) also got corrupted badly.

I used Frontpage 2000.

[europeforvisitors]

FrontPage 2000 is long out of date, so anything that might or might not have happened with it has little relevance to what a new FP user might encounter. (I could tell some personal horror stories about Dreamweaver, too--or HTML editors such as HomeSite and HotDog Pro, for that matter--but I'd be describing versions that are no longer being sold.)

[HelenDev]

I use Dreamweaver and I don't have too many problems with this. DW doesn't mess with my php code or anything. Sometimes it lays out the HTML in a way I don't like but aside from that I have no complaints. Not like the frightening code you get if you are ever foolish enough to save a Word doc as HTML...

[OrlandoTodd]

Forgot to mention... Arachnophilia is free. Actually its CareWare meaning you have to do something nice for someone. :)

[europeforvisitors]

Not like the frightening code you get if you are ever foolish enough to save a Word doc as HTML...

To be fair to Microsoft, Word was never intended to be a Web authoring tool per se. Its HTML features are intended to allow publication of Word documents to the Web (e.g., on a corporate intranet), and--just as important--to allow such Web documents to be opened and edited again in Word. Anyone who uses Word as a substitute for FrontPage, DreamWeaver, or HomeSite is just clueless, in the same way that anyone who uses FrontPage, DreamWeaver, or HomeSite as a word processor for print documents is using the wrong tool.

[koocw]

Well yes, MS Word was never intended to be a web authoring tool, but I wonder if there is a way to convert formatted text in MS Word into HTML?

I know it's probably not possible, but I was just wondering...

[vkaryl]

koocw: yes, there is, but it's not particularly elegant OR usable! I found this out when a friend sent me some info he wanted put on his site.

It can be done with an hp scanner and the "save as" setup. It produces horrendously bloated and ugly code with NO clue as to actual font sizes, formatting, etc.

I do NOT recommend this to anyone. It will actually save it in a "form" of html, but believe me, if you upload it to webspace, you will be pretty appalled when you look at it!

[mifi601]

more than once customers asked me to give them pw and username of their sites, only to change the pages with word and then upload them ... it cost them a lot of money, to have me fix the irreparable damage that was suffered to my original code!

[europeforvisitors]

more than once customers asked me to give them pw and username of their sites, only to change the pages with word and then upload them ... it cost them a lot of money, to have me fix the irreparable damage that was suffered to my original code!

Couldn't you have just uploaded your backup copies of the original pages?

[mifi601]

good point. the reason i redid the whole thing was by the time i realized what was going on, a month had passed they wanted all kind of changes, so I started from scratch - with a little help from my old files :)

[TheDave]

From my experience, FrontPage will only change code if you go into the WYSIWYG mode and start changing things there. If you work in the HTML tab all the time FP shouldn't go changing anything. The only thing it will change is the meta generator tags it likes putting in, but if you delete them it won't put them back.

[pageoneresults]

We had a very interesting and educational discussion on using FrontPage a while back. I've worked with FP since MS bought it, that was a while ago. ;)

Things to be aware of when using FrontPage
[webmasterworld.com]

I've been producing clean unbloated code with FP for many years. You can configure your HTML coding to produce no bloat as far back as I can remember (1996).

Styling elements using the WYSISYG features of any program will produce code bloat. This is where CSS comes to the rescue.

[vkaryl]

Styling elements using the WYSISYG features of any program will produce code bloat. This is where CSS comes to the rescue.

Not true of TopStylePro, pageoneresults....

[TheDave]

The only reason I use FP these days, as opposed to notepad, is because it colours the tags, attributes and server side instructions appropriately. I just spent the entire weekend (long-weekend) redesigning a site in FP, and only once did it change some code - which was a bizarre mixture of asp and css in a style attribute - but this was never a permanent arrangement anyway, and got moved to the head.

In regards to the thread linked to earlier, the first gripe mentioned has been fixed in the latest version of FP - if you remove the meta generator tags, they stay removed.

I don't particularly advocate the use of frontpage, I'm just happy enough with it that I'm not compelled to find another editor.