in search of WYSIWYG editor

[ferhanz]

I need a good WYSIWYG and HTML editor thru which i can publish articles and upload them directly to my website,the images in the article should be automatically put into a directory,

Secondly how can i get a article system like of Mamboo Open Source which has options like " Print to PDF, Send To friend, Other related Articles etc " ..Or is there a clean and simple CMS available to publish articles that can be integrated into any website?

Farhan

[vincevincevince]

Try looking for xinha - it's reliable and probably does what you want.

[MrSniffles]

html-kit is a good one.

[photon]

HTML-Kit isn't primarily a WYSIWYG editor, though it does have an option that will let you create simple layouts in a WYSIWYG fashion.

[ferhanz]

well both of them are OK, thanks for letting me know abt them

Can i have a CMS like mamboo integrated into my website for publishing articles only?

[Tomness]

html-kit is a good one.

I agree. It's clean, light, and easy to use.

[dreamcatcher]

For CMS previews check out:

[opensourcecms.com...]

Angeline is a nice simple one, but each to his own.

dc

[foxtrot3]

Try this one...

[nvu.com...]

It's a clone of Netscape/Mozilla composer. Very easy to use, and free.

[ScratchDisk]

I say shell out for dreamweaver, it will pay for itself very quickly. If you find a project where someone can kick down $500 up front, then your software is paid for plus you get Macromedia Support... you'll be building sites faster than ever this way.

[Dexie]

Whats the publishing like with Dreamweaver please? FrontPage is very slow ;-(

[ferhanz]

Well dreamweaver and fronpage are offline ditors and i need a online editor just like the one in Mamboo OPen source..is there any one?

[Lorel]

I say shell out for dreamweaver, it will pay for itself very quickly. If you find a project where someone can kick down $500 up front, then your software is paid for plus you get Macromedia Support... you'll be building sites faster than ever this way.

Before you pay for any editor check out the websites it produces and try and validate the code. I've never seen one yet (not even the latest versions of FP and DW) that didn't put out massive code bloat and broken and deprecated code. I redesign a lot of websites and most of my clients come from FP folks whose website didn't go anywhere after years because of the above. Best to learn HTML and write your code by hand.

[bcolflesh]

I think you're asking for an online (in-browser) editor? if so:

[dynarch.com...]

or

[sourceforge.net...]

[bill]

I've never seen one yet (not even the latest versions of FP and DW) that didn't put out massive code bloat and broken and deprecated code.

Sorry, that doesn't ring true with my experiences. Code bloat generally only occurs in FP when you use proprietary components that interact with the server extensions. Even then it's not really what I'd call bloat. Just stay away from letting the WYSIWYG add major web components like forms and site navigation. These widgets are one click solutions to aid beginners.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as deprecated code. Could you give us some examples?

[Lorel]

Sorry, that doesn't ring true with my experiences. Code bloat generally only occurs in FP when you use proprietary components that interact with the server extensions. Even then it's not really what I'd call bloat. Just stay away from letting the WYSIWYG add major web components like forms and site navigation. These widgets are one click solutions to aid beginners.

What site doesn't use forms and site navigation? Beginners have to use it.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as deprecated code. Could you give us some examples?

Things like the font tag (should be in the css file) and center tag (should also be in the css file or incorporated into the table or P or .... tag). Margin data in the body tag. Height in table cells. And a lot more.

Newbies don't understand CSS so they leave those things and a lot more in the code and then it doesn't validate.

When a site doesn't validate it can result in keyword rank dropping.

[MilleB]

I'm a newbie & using FP, but really the code is massive.
Just an example : use tables with colored borders.
for each & every cells FP will add a "MSSpacer.img", set the <font>, add a <span> tag (god knows what for).
Not talking of tons of <style> set-up in the header.

Enough!

Give me a WYSIWYG which produces a lean & mean HTML & please not a code editor, non programmers can't use it.

Tried Composer, not very friendly.

Also
Publishing is damn slow indeed!
and now that I have XP SP2 installed with Firewall on, I always get an error message which turns out to be false, since the transfer works fine.

[bill]

Let's try to keep this thread on topic. It's primarily about looking for a WYSIWYG editor. We're not here to debate whether you think hand coded HTML is better. Feel free to start another thread if you want to debate that topic.

What site doesn't use forms and site navigation? Beginners have to use it.

We're not talking about beginners...
That said, you don't have to use the functions I pointed out at all. Forms can be made in the WYSIWYG without the server extension requirements just as easily. Same for navigation. It's pretty simple to avoid these if you have even a basic knowledge of the WYSIWYG software.

Things like the font tag (should be in the css file) and center tag (should also be in the css file or incorporated into the table or P or .... tag). Margin data in the body tag. Height in table cells. And a lot more.

It's pretty clear that you haven't touched a recent version of FP or DW. I make perfectly valid XHTML Strict sites that have table-less layouts and CSS with FP all the time. So do several others here.

When a site doesn't validate it can result in keyword rank dropping.

What?! This is the first I've ever heard of this. Could you please document this for us? ;)

Joking aside, having valid code is an important point for me as well, but certainly not for the reason you appear to be using. WYSIWYG editors like FP and DW can be used with validators like HTML Tidy to check the output code. Or you could do it online. Even when I hand edit my code I'll run it through a validator.

OK, I'll stop rambling off topic now...I think we're supposed to be looking for a capable online WYSIWYG editor to work within a CMS, right?

[MilleB]

It's pretty clear that you haven't touched a recent version of FP or DW. I make perfectly valid XHTML Strict sites that have table-less layouts and CSS with FP all the time. So do several others here.

I use FP 2003, don't think there is a later version.
I use also CSS & its working
I do use tables, apparently you don't... maybe why you don't see that mess.

#4 HTML-Kit isn't primarily a WYSIWYG editor, though it does have an option that will let you create simple layouts in a WYSIWYG fashion.

I'd agree with that, since you can not pick a graphical element and revert to HTML code view as FP or Composer will do for you.I won't use it.

[bill]

That comment wasn't directed at you MilleB. ;) You are using the latest version of FP.

WYSIWYG editors are great for tables. However, you need to remember that the more you use the WYSIWYG to manually adjust the tables the more code will be generated to approximate what you're doing. It's a trade-off; Use the WYSIWYG interface and see nearly the same result in your page, but the code may be a bit kludgey. The key with tables is to work with the properties of the table, not the WYSIWYG interface. (In FP right click on the table and play with the properties there.)

We're veering off topic again here. Feel free to open a new thread if you want to discuss these side topics more.

[pageoneresults]

Well dreamweaver and fronpage are offline ditors and i need a online editor just like the one in Mamboo OPen source..is there any one?

I'm not sure about DW, but FrontPage offers online editing capabilities through IE. When you startup FP for the first time, it asks you if you want to make it the default editor for html. At that point you select yes. Then you add an Edit button to your IE toolbar. If your host has FP Extensions configured correctly, you can now browse to any site that you manage, click the Edit button, enter your username/password, and it will automatically open FP and you will be editing live at the server, not a local version. I've worked like this since FP 1.0 and FrontPage Express.

[Lorel]

MilleB

Give me a WYSIWYG which produces a lean & mean HTML & please not a code editor, non programmers can't use it.

I researched every program availabe several months ago (because sometimes I get tired of writing code by hand) and NOT ONE of them produces lean and mean HTML. They all put out deprecated code along with code bloat. I even saw one site designed with FP recently with 60K of code and only 2 paragraphs of text on home page--all due to code bloat.

Moderator Bill:

It's pretty clear that you haven't touched a recent version of FP or DW.

You might want to search google for FP or DW problems and notice the code bloat and deprecated code problems in even the newest versions.

I make perfectly valid XHTML Strict sites that have table-less layouts and CSS with FP all the time. So do several others here.

Right and what Newbie FP or DW user knows anything about CSS?

When a site doesn't validate it can result in keyword rank dropping.

What?! This is the first I've ever heard of this. Could you please document this for us? ;)

No, I can't document it for you because you just said to keep this thread on topic :o)

However Keyword Ranking is my area of expertise and I have seen this over and over that when I edit a page and forget to validate the code and later find the keywords have dropped in rank. After I fix it then it comes back again. I have also redesigned several sites that USED to be in Front Page with Code Bloat and deprecated code that had been online for years with no traffic and after I fixed them they started ranking like a normal website.

Now I will take my discussion elsewhere where comments re FP and DW are welcome.

[ferhanz]

pageoneresults
with DW and FP you can only edit the files if its installed on your pc ..i was talking abt theonline editor because i need to edit my files formmultiple locations...Mamboo Open source editor has got what i want but there is too much that comes with it...

[BlackRose]

ferhanz

i can use both FP and DW to edit files directly on my server and not located on my pc...

[bill]

Lorel you're simply repeating third-hand information that we've all heard before. Unfortunately this information isn't correct, so I wanted to point that out. You admittedly don't have experience with any of the software you're railing against, so where does that leave us? I can make great sites using a WYSIWYG or text editor, I can make equally horrible sites using either. I think you're blaming the tool for the output quality when really it's the individual using the software.

When a site doesn't validate it can result in keyword rank dropping.

I truly thought you were joking about that. This is another incorrect assumption. Validating code makes no difference to your ranking. Here's a good thread that might be of interest to you: My pages are now W3C validated. Will this help on the search engines? [webmasterworld.com]

[MilleB]

foxtrot3

Try this one...
[nvu.com...]

It's a clone of Netscape/Mozilla composer. Very easy to use, and free.

I've tried NVU yesterday for 24hours, not so bad. Indeed a better version than Netscape/Composer.
I liked most the CSS editor which allows you to preview what you are doing ...
What I really miss in NVU is the "slipt view" that FP gives you? Borring to click back & forth all the time.
In the ideal world you would like to be able to configure what you want in the split view.
Also tag editor could be better.

[MilleB]

bill

The key with tables is to work with the properties of the table, not the WYSIWYG interface. (In FP right click on the table and play with the properties there.)

THX, will try this one.
Maybe we should open a new thread on do's and don't for FP tables and other code unfriendly stuff? Something like :
Clean code with FP 2003 do's and don't

[bill]

Maybe we should open a new thread on do's and don't for FP tables and other code unfriendly stuff? Something like :
Clean code with FP 2003 do's and don't

Outstanding idea MilleB! :) That's a great topic. I'll let you do the honors.

[Lorel]

Bill,

You might want to read Brett Tabke's "Successful site in 12 Months" posted on WW (He is the moderator of the Google forum). In that list he states the following that is of interest to all users of FrontPage:

Under step C (#3):

"text should not out weigh the html content." The opposite happens in FP unless you are an expert at using FP.

"The pages should validate" The pages won't validate in FP unless they are an experienced FP user.

"and be usable in everything from Lynx to leading edge browsers". This is a big problem with FP because it produces multiple cross browser imcompatibilties.

etc.

If you want to just design a web site, then FrontPage will do it for you but if you want a SUCCESSFUL site that search engines will like then you should learn to write code by hand or plan to spend multiple hours fixing what Front Page puts out.

[pageoneresults]

FrontPage users will want to check out this topic we had a while back...

Things to be aware of when using FrontPage [webmasterworld.com]
Remind us why you didn't use it, or workarounds for its pitfalls.

[europeforvisitors]

If you want to just design a web site, then FrontPage will do it for you but if you want a SUCCESSFUL site that search engines will like then you should learn to write code by hand or plan to spend multiple hours fixing what Front Page puts out.

I've been using FrontPage since 1996, and my site does very well in the search engines.

I don't spend any time "fixing what Front Page (sic) puts out," either. :-)