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if domain.com & www.domain.com page=duplicate?!

position tech suggests to disable www.domain.com or domain.com ...

     

enotalone

10:31 pm on Apr 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hi everyone. the last email i have received from position tech contains an advice for me that according to them if used can help my site in yahoo.

<snip>Sorry, we can't have any email quotes.</snip>

anyone sees a logic here? both www.domain.com and domain.com server the same file and there is nothing unusual in it as far as i see. i hope position tech is not right and that yahoo is smart enough to distinguish domain.com from www.domain.com.

[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 2:27 am (utc) on April 19, 2004]
[edit reason] TOS #9 [/edit]

helenp

10:38 pm on Apr 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I just gone nut....

Slade

12:00 am on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'd tell you to search for it here, but I'm not sure what to tell you to search for.

Figure out what kind of web server you have, and look for the appropriate method of permanent redirect.

Pick the method you prefer for accessing your site, either domain.com or www.domain.com. Set up your permanent redirect to make any requests for the unwanted url go to the proper url. After a few months, the world will forget the other site ever existed :)

chinkchink

5:23 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hey, enotalone,
would you sticky me the <snip></snip> part of your original post? just would like to find out what their "advice" was

thank you in advance

jrs_66

6:40 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think the world is quite accustomed to using both www.***.com and ***.com. I personally believe it's not very professional not to accomodate both. I think yahoo fighting an uphill battle if they want to enforce this.

pixel_juice

6:49 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Technically domain.com and www.domain.com should be completely different sites. If they both give a 200 response code to visitors then your server is suggesting that they *are* two different sites.

You can accomodate both, as Slade says above, by permanently redirecting one to the other (as webmasterworld.com does). I'm pretty sure Google has penalised sites that haven't done this before now, and in any case I figure the safest bet is to get into the habit of redirecting them and then forget about it.

ptietze

7:02 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



In my experience neither Yahoo or MSN handle 301 redirects, while Google does just fine with them.

Yahoo_Mike

9:38 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



ptietze

>>>
In my experience neither Yahoo or MSN handle 301 redirects, while Google does just fine with them
>>>

Just an FYI, I've posted previously that Yahoo has had some issues with 301 redirects. It's an issue we're working to resolve and does not happen in every case.

enotalone

12:15 am on Apr 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



if redirecting everything from domain.com to www.domain.com with 301 is not working with yahoo i wonder why position tech suggests i do it and think it will fix my trouble.

should i give yahoo 404 instead of 301 so it drops domain.com?

2_much

5:30 am on Apr 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The problem with doing that is that if users type the site with or without the www you don't want them to get a 404, because you might lose them. I'd think twice about that.

helenp

12:32 am on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just checked my headers, and both domain.com and www.domain.com gives 200 result.

Donīt have any link to domain.com but should I put an redirect to www.domain.com just in case?

enotalone

6:13 pm on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Helenp, my headers were giving normal 200 response too, but positiontech insisted that my domain.com and www.domain.com are still duplicates in the eyes of yahoo.

soapystar

7:38 pm on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



i guess im missing the point here but if both versions give a 200 (as do mine with a mod rewrite from non www to www) whats the crime? If the content is identical then one should be dropped and if not then you have two different urls. Whats the problem? They should be able to handle identical content without dropping the whole domain.

pixel_juice

4:34 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>>Whats the problem?

The problem is that you are then relying on the search engine to correctly identify the two sites and not penalise you for duplicate content. Their record in this regard is by no means perfect. Plus you also lose any benefit from links to http:/domain.com which 301s help pass over to www.domain.com

soapystar

5:18 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oops, actually it does give a 301..i checked the wrong way so got the response from the www domain instead.

contentsiteguy

6:15 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Is this a possible reason why some sites have been dropped from Ink and Yahoo? How can you check if your domain is set up with a permanent redirect from mydomain.com to www.mydomain.com?

pixel_juice

6:17 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You can use the handy server header checker [webmasterworld.com] in your control panel on this site :)

As for if Y! penalises sites for this, I've seen evidence that Google have in the past, so I can't see how it is worth the risk, especially with all the other benefits of using a redirect.

helenp

6:43 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



My give both 200
I better change that.
Suppose itīs easy to do.

soapystar

7:14 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



claus posted a great htaccess code for this

Before the RewriteRule, you might want to add a test to make sure that the domain is actually spelled without "www." before you make the redirect - otherwise you will also redirect those requests that already use the "www."
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^example.com
RewriteRule (.*) [example.com...] [R=301,L]

I removed "^" and "$" from the RewriteRule leoo24 posted, i don't think they were wrong, but i don't think they made much of a difference either ;)

contentsiteguy

7:32 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pixel_juice,

Let me make sure we are on the same page. Are you saying that there is a possibility a site could be penalized by doing the 301 permanent redirect or by NOT doing the 301 permanent redirect.

On the one hand it seems as though a site that is not 301 permanently redirecting domain.com to www.domain.com is risking a duplication penalty.

On the other hand it seems like Yahoo is having problems with 301 redirects and are penalizing sites for that too?

So what is the correct thing to do?

My site is currently penalized with Yahoo for no particular reason and I used the server header checker here and domain.com and www.domain.com both say 200 ok.

helenp

7:34 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



thanks soapy, donīt understand to much...

Did a try with the cpanel redirect,
worked for [mydomain.com...] perfect

but the www. one got an redirection as well.
Better speak to my host.

I checked my backlinks and donīt have any for my site without the www. in yahoo.
But my hosts domain had diferents backlinks in yahoo.com for domain with and without www. in google they had the same, seems like google counts both as same domain. My hosts domain is not penalized by yahoo.

soapystar

7:40 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



helenp
just put this code in an htaccess file if you are on apache:

RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^example.com
RewriteRule (.*) [example.com...] [R=301,L]

btw: obviously you just switch www.example.com to your own domain :-)

helenp

7:47 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



yes itīs apache
<<<<btw: obviously you just switch www.example.com to your own domain :-)
>>>>>>

I liked that........ Im not that bad yet,..... my head is moving a lot lately, but in itīs place :)
Thanks

soapystar

8:17 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



helenp..just my little joke :-)

BTW anyone notice that Yahoo shows a url search for www.example.com with the port number:
www.example.com:8080

also a search for "example", has example.com as number one. The thing is that it isnt actually a website and has no content! Its also pr8!

helenp

9:08 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I loved that 8080 thing :)

donīt miss this, do a sitesearch for example, then check the pages in their site, there are plenty......donīt forget to click: repeat the search with the omitted results included.

but what I seen and I and many others uses as exampel for url: ..mysite.com, ..mydomain.com, ..exampel.com, ..whatever.com etc. and these domain exists, not whondering why they have so good PR, clever one that bought them :)

helenp

2:34 pm on Apr 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>>>>>>>Let me make sure we are on the same page. Are you saying that there is a possibility a site could be penalized by doing the 301 permanent redirect or by NOT doing the 301 permanent redirect.

On the one hand it seems as though a site that is not 301 permanently redirecting domain.com to www.domain.com is risking a duplication penalty.

On the other hand it seems like Yahoo is having problems with 301 redirects and are penalizing sites for that too?

So what is the correct thing to do? <<<<<<<<<<<

I would like to know as well.
But considering, if you already are out of serps you donīt have much to loose to try it for some days.

shahid

4:17 pm on Apr 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I feel most of the people here have experience with this issue. I am also facing a similar problem.My site is hosted with a hosting which provided cpanel control panel. I am advised to upload to public-html folder and when i upload a file it is automatically copied to www folder. If i upload to www folder it is automatically copied to public-html. Most of the search engines sometimes show duplicate pages - with www and without www. Despite having a good PR and links this site ranks low in search engines. Should i change the server? I am desparate to sove this.Thanks for any suggestions.

pixel_juice

5:32 pm on Apr 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



On the one hand it seems as though a site that is not 301 permanently redirecting domain.com to www.domain.com is risking a duplication penalty.

On the other hand it seems like Yahoo is having problems with 301 redirects and are penalizing sites for that too?

So what is the correct thing to do? <<<<<<<<<<<

Y! have said that they are trying to deal with their redirecting difficulties (not that i've seen much evidence in their serps) but in any case, IMO the only sensible choice is to redirect any duplicates (and I include non-www domains in this) to your main url.

enotalone

5:37 pm on Apr 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



shahid: my server is set up the same way as yours, but instead of going through the hell of changing servers you could change the setting in dns, httpd config file or use mod_rewrite i think.

i agree, it seems that the safest way to go now is to use only domain.com or www.domain.com especially if you have troubles with Y and nothing else seems to work and on top of this also positiontech says that the site does show duplicates.

i started to use mod_rewrite solution, google does not seem to have a problem with it at all and started to update the pages we have with them to include www in them. so far the change does not show any difference in Yahoo. if it requests anything from domain.com it gets regular 301 headers and normally is redirected to the same page and gets 200 code.

as this did not seem to change a thing, i also submitted the site to Site Match hoping that this might help somehow. really, i did anything that might have upset yahoo, but it still would not show anything unless you search for domain.com or www.domain.com in yahoo though it regularly crawls the site on daily bases.

enotalone

5:02 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



i am not sure if it is because of redirecting everything from domain.com to www.domain.com with mod_rewrite or because i applied for sitematch but yahoo seems to fixed its problem of seeing duplicate content for my site. now, whether i search for www.domain.com or domain.com it would show only www.domain.com. not much, but step forward i guess.
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