Forum Moderators: open
What I am concerned about is that I’ve come across a site that consists mostly of financial affiliate links, plus a directory of web site addresses giving a “Top Ten” of sites for mortgages, travel insurance, loans, car insurance etc. The top three of each of these categories are provided by GoTo UK. Now this site has its own affiliate scheme, and here is the exact wording used to entice new affiliates
“Each time a user clicks through on one of our top three listings within a given category, we will pay you 40% of the click through revenue generated, net of Affiliate Window commission. In fact, during October 2001 we will increase this to 50%!
This means, for example, if a user clicks on the top listing within the Loans category, you will earn 69p*. If they click on the top listing within the Mortgages category, you will earn 56p*. No purchase required. No registration required. (* as on 5-Oct-2001)”
And here is how they describe how commission is calculated
“The first three results within most of our categories are provided by Overture (previosuly known as GoTo). We are paid by Overture each time a unique user clicks on one of those links.
Our affiliate program allows you to share that revenue with us. We will pay you each time one of your visitors clicks on a Overture link.
We pay you 40% of the revenue paid to us by Overture, net of Affiliate Window commission. We have increased this to 50% for October 2001!
You can calculate what your commission will be for each listing, as follows:
1. Find the category of interest below and click on the associated search term.
2. Multiply the 'cost to advertiser' amount of each of the top three listings by 0.139 to give the 50% commission amount, or by 0.111 to give the 40% commission amount.
This is the commission you will earn when your visitor clicks on this link within the xxx-company directory.
NB: xxx-company and our partner, Overture UK, take the issue of fraudulent click throughs very seriously. If a user repeatedly clicks on the same link, you will only be paid once. Our software monitors for fraudulent activity on a daily basis and we reserve the right to remove an affiliate from our affiliate program where evidence suggests fraudulent activity. Further action will be taken where appropriate.”
So there we have it. GoTo UK is paying a commercial website somewhere between 33% and 50% of our click-through charges. The commercial web site is then deducting the percentage taken by the people running the affiliate scheme, and splitting the remainder 50-50 with their affiliates !!. I particularly like the part where they state that they will only pay once for repeated clicks….that’s reassuring isn’t it?.
As a footnote, I emailed Overture (GoTo) last Friday to give them the opportunity to tell me that I was totally mistaken. Daniel from Overture Customer Services has just phoned to say that their client is going to change the wording in their next newsletter, and he appreciates that it sounds bad the way that it’s written….you bet it sounds bad.
Not a sign that says Click Here! and get 10cent!
Surely what you don't want is people who are motivated to click purely for their 10c. They will click ANYTHING to get the money and have no interest at all in the content. They are not potential customers - at least not targeted potential customers.
That makes all the difference to this model. What GoTo's mates are doing is just one step removed from competitor clicking. It is getting people to click for the sake of clicking, rather than attracting clicks in any targeted or calculated way.
The whole point of the GoTo model is that you pay for targetted traffic... you bid on search words that are used by those people who are most likely to buy from you.
Surely it can't be that hard to see the problem with paying someone just to click on just ANY site?
If you want GENERAL traffic you can get it very cheaply. If you bid high on competitive words you want targeted traffic for your money, not general traffic... and least of all... unreal and false traffic as in this case.
This mechanism is in my opinion a disgrace... GoTo make money, the frontal site makes money, the guy clicking the site makes money. Guess who loses? The customer - the guy paying for traffic and just getting a bod sitting there clicking away.
Travoli - It's an absolutely brilliant business model. Are we all forming an orderly queue to sign up with Overture UK - I reckon that I can make thousands with this particular scheme. Oh no, don't tell me....you're all already doing it, and nobody told me.
from Overture's FAQ:
1. What happens if someone keeps clicking on my listing?
Overture uses a number of methods to ensure that all clicks that are reported to our advertisers are genuine. For security reasons, we do not disclose details of this protection methodology nor do we give visual or system clues that click protection is active. Rest assured that "invalid clicking" is one of the most important issues at Overture. We realize that it is mandatory to ensure the integrity of our marketplace.
So assuming that someone cannot click repeatedly, would not the resulting click through's still be people interested in your link? Or are the affiliates able to change the link to say whatever they want? THAT could be a problem :(
One more question. Who would want to start at the "half of a half" revenue model when they could be an Overture partner? Unless that is reserved for large sites only.
(edited by: Travoli at 7:02 pm (gmt) on Oct. 15, 2001
Seems to me that the problem is for the website in question. Why would an affiliate sign-up for 50% when they could get twice as much from GoToUK directly.
[Ross, see your StickyMail] I'm missing something.
Do you want your visitors because they have clicked on your link on the basis of:
a) Your title and description (ie: they are interested in what you say)
or
b) They are being paid 10c to click on it
I know which I would go for, bearing in mind that you are paying for each click!
I am also pretty sure which type of visitor would have the best conversion rate.
I think the problem is that your not reading it right. This is just someone reselling an affiliate program.
They're not saying they will give an indivual user money for clicking on the listings.....
They're just saying that they'll give you a cut of their goto commissions if you show the same listings on your site....
Example scenario: I spot that the top bid on 'disaster recovery' is $4.25. I take the GoTo shilling and put their returns on my site. I then click on it every day and get my mates to do the same knowing that I personally will earn $1-$2 per click.
Great for me... terrible for the advertiser.
The more small outlets like this, the more likely the scenario I have painted of people applying just so they can click themselves and earn.
There is a danger here for sure, but if you're happy, and don't agree, fine... continue to invest without complaint. I'll refrain from harping on (just trying to bring it to your attention).
I understand what you are saying. Probably would be more "cheating" going on at that level. On the other hand, assuming Overture has a good system for detecting fraud, they would be limiting the amount of fradulent clicks you pay for. Then someone might say "Why would Overture care, they get paid for fraudulent clicks also." The answer is that it is in their best interest to cut fraud. Like Seth said, if the ROI is not justifying the cost, people will stop advertising with them. The motivations all around are money. It would cost Overture dearly in the long run.
Stick with the terms that are making you money :)
BTW do you think the extra legitimate traffic will outweigh the fraud? I think overall you might actually make more money from these programs, even with a little bit of cheating slipping through (which is most likely already happening everywhere).
I trust AV or any of Overture's search partners not to steal money from me by fraudulent clicking. Why should I trust a commercial web site that is offering its affiliates money to click on my listing?.
Are you saying that you already knew that PPC engines such as Overture were willing to pay 50% of their revenue to any web site that wanted to include their listings on their site?
Don't trust them...watch your logs....if you see they're sending you more traffic than larger sites call overture and report the abuse....
"Are you saying that you already knew that PPC engines such as Overture were willing to pay 50% of their revenue to any web site that wanted to include their listings on their site?"
I've recieved traffic via goto from sites worse than the one in question. If its one visitor I have no problem with it (its probably legitimate), If I notice that this no-name site is sending me more traffic than AOL I call goto and have them refund my money and remove the advertiser...
Yes....but they wouldn't normally get paid for doing it.
People being urged to link through and then getting paid for clicks is adding a whole new incentive for clicking.. or getting their visitors to click. I can see a whole new type of pyramid selling/clicking going on here... with the advertiser the victim.
I know this sort of thing has been around with smaller PPC engines previously, but it's the first I have heard of it (and now seen) with GoTo.
If you are offering money for clicks... however you word it.. you are affecting the quality of the average visitor, the conversion rate and ultimately the ROI for the advertiser.
That much is true, and it is something for everyone who uses GoTo as an advertiser to be aware of.
And the advertiser will make the final call on his/her PPC platform and budget. If it isn't working, TRASH it.
It is "possible" that this niche / hybrid PPC scheme could increase ROI in a given market. They do ask that affiliate sites be of relevant content.
________________________________________
Clients have differing objectives.
NOTE recent Email
Dear Overture(TM) Advertiser:
The month is half over and you have not yet met Overture's minimum spend requirement.
We thought you should know that as of 10/14/2001 your account xxxxxxxx has accrued approximately $0.70 in clickthrough charges.
As you know, Overture requires that all accounts spend a minimum of $20 a month in clickthrough charges. Accounts with a monthly spend of less than $20 are charged the difference between their spend and the $20 minimum.
Please be sure your site receives a minimum of $20 in clickthroughs by the end of the month so that you avoid getting charged.
______________________________________
-- Very limited market. --
Does that client care?
NO
If he spent $20.00 to get one account, he would be happier than a pig in stuff.
As for fraud, say they discount double clicks on a listing from an ip. What about compiling a list of 1,000 pricey listings. You click on each of them one time in a day.... and then the next day and the next... or even once a week. You could be talking serious money for surfing and clicking. Much better than any other pay to click schemes so far.
It just seems wrong to be working both sides of the game. Pick one or the other and make it your business. We have to trust Overture but let's face it, they can have a staff in the basement clicking on things and adding up quarters on everyone's account. Or even just innocent clicks here and there.... It adds up to lots of dough. We don't want to think about that. I spend four figures every month on Overture and have no clue as to where a lot of it goes in the end. I believe I'm making a profit off of those listings but as to how much expense is from the "end consumer" and from the competition or bad clicks is anyone's guess.
