Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.197.66.254

Forum Moderators: werty

Message Too Old, No Replies

Yahoo to Change PPC Algorithm

From Straight Auction to Rewarding Relevance

     
4:11 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Moderator

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 13, 2003
posts:4744
votes: 8


Codenamed “Project Panama,” Yahoo’s new model will be similar to that of Google (nasdaq: GOOG - news - people ), which ranks search-engine ads by both the amount advertisers pay for keywords and the relevance of the ad.

Source: Forbes Article [forbes.com]

Yahoo is in the midst of some pretty major changes that will help them to better monetize their search result pages by rewarding relevancy factors to advertisers similar to Google.

Many have been waiting for this for well over a year, and the rollouts are happening overseas first.

The last time frame I heard for the US launch was September 06.

4:53 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 14, 2003
posts:508
votes: 0


Can't come soon enough.

I've been thinking about dropping Yahoo in favour of Microsoft when it becomes available.

Overture just feels so clunky compared to AdWords.

This might just convince me to stay!

4:55 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 15, 2004
posts:274
votes: 0


Well it's about time. They have lost hundreds of millions of dollars by completely dropping the ball on PPC. I just hope their editorial system gets a major overhaul as well as that is a nightmare too.
5:32 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

joined:Apr 2, 2004
posts:737
votes: 0


Yah, the editorial system sucks, but AdWords has been pretty bad lately too. The main problem with OV is that it is very slow and hard to work with, very very very frustrating!
5:49 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:July 18, 2002
posts:2307
votes: 33


The main problem with OV is that it is very slow and hard to work with, very very very frustrating!

I have been trying to clean out old ads this week. Dear God! 2 days straight of waiting for that system to deal and in Adwords, it would have taken me less than an hour to do the same.

But, back on topic. I am glad they are doing this. I will do much better with them when this goes into effect. ;)

6:02 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 21, 2006
posts:102
votes: 0


I agree, the Overture change is much needed...it's slightly ironic, as G is supposed to be implementing changes that to make it similar to Overture. See [webmasterworld.com...]

MSN ppc is ok, but the adcenter ads run few and far between. Still in a beta and very rough around the edges. It started invite-only and now the original invitees get to invite others. Steve (or anyone), send me a message if you want an invite - I have a few left.

6:47 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 4, 2006
posts:21
votes: 0


If only Google could get a patent on the notion of rewarding better performing ads!
6:56 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 16, 2005
posts:456
votes: 0


This is big news. I wonder if the minimum CPC will be reduced?

arran

brad_ranks

7:06 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Inactive Member
Account Expired

 
 


I just have this feeling that if the algo. they use to determine "relevancy", is in any way, shape, or form of that used by the editorial team, then I can't forsee that it will even come close to being like google.

The value lies in the advertisers ability to determine relevancy. If I want to create an ad for "123456789-MANUFACTURER", and a very small number of people search on it, but convert at 100%, I should be able to do so. But currently, you cannot get approval for it because there "Aren't enough searches to warrant the inclusion of that keyword" "It would take resources to our already taxed DataBase".

Translated from Yahoo Speak, this means, we don't want to waste the time and energy to review your term for relevancy if it's not going to convert a larger clickthrough volume and make us $$$$.

<rant>IMO</rant>

7:27 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 22, 2004
posts:144
votes: 0


p5gal5, they're actually up to 70% or so I think. MSN is showing mostly AdCenter ads. One of my contacts at MSN just today told me they will soon be up to 100%. :D
8:35 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 9, 2004
posts:38
votes: 0


Look for the changes in June, not September.
8:41 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 25, 2004
posts:56
votes: 0


Seems like all this did with google was make everyone pay the highest price for a click regardless of the ad position. I lost most of my google traffic when they changed over because I cant afford their minimum bids.
8:44 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 7, 2006
posts:12
votes: 0


Everything I heard tells me that MSN search is still a mess internally.

Anyone having success with it?

As for Overture, you guys seem to like them being more like Google and copying Google. I am totally against this, Overutr being different from Google, not as flooded, and not putting as many restrictions on your AD is what makes me make 5x as much profit in Overture than Google. I'd love to understand why you want to take this away?

-Brian

9:16 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 28, 2004
posts:1081
votes: 0


I'd love to understand why you want to take this away?

Basically, the sub-title of this thread explains it - "From Straight Auction to Rewarding Relevance".

If your ads are truly relevant, Yahoo's model penalizes you by pitting you against advertisers who's ads are not relevant, generate poor CTRs, yet still directly impact your cost.

Google's model, despite it's flaws, forces non-relevant advertisers to - in effect - pay a penalty for their non-relevance creating a barrier for irrelevant fly-by-nighters.

9:52 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 26, 2004
posts:1015
votes: 0


How will this effect YPN publishers?
10:19 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 31, 2005
posts:65
votes: 0


Hey P5Gal5 - any of those MSN AdCenter invites left?

Would be very appreciated and I would owe you one.

12:33 am on Apr 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 30, 2005
posts:84
votes: 0


No Yahoo, don't do it! I like my ads irrelevant but paying well. The last thing I need are more low-paying but relevant ads...

At least give me two radio buttons:
_ relevant ads even if I make less money
_ well-paying ads even if they are not relevant

4:41 am on Apr 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 28, 2004
posts:351
votes: 0


This was probably one of the worst kept secrets of 2006. Expect major migration headaches when it's implemented.
1:03 pm on Apr 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:June 13, 2003
posts:332
votes: 0


First off, BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

Second, there is no way this will be launched in the US this year. Look for Feb 2007 at the earlist. You know overture programers, you know there are going to be more bugs than cockeroaches to squash.

Prediction: the 'cut over' to the new algorithm is going to be so horrific for about a month everyone is going to wish it never happened.

After this month, things should settle down, but it's going to be ugly.

jd

2:29 pm on Apr 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:May 12, 2004
posts:533
votes: 0


hooray,

We use adwords a lot but have given up with overture due to inconsistent editing policies and the fact that overture doesn't work properly.

One search term has a full set of advertisers on google paying 50-60p per click, yet no-one is advertising on that term in overture. we tried but for some reason it just doesn't let anyone bid on it...

The sooner they scrap it, the better!

7:59 am on Apr 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sem4u is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 18, 2002
posts:3067
votes: 1


Personally I think that this will raise CPC prices - not good news for advertisers but should be good news for Yahoo! (unless lots of advertisers leave!)

It should help to reduce the amount of time taken to manage campaigns.

3:30 pm on Apr 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 7, 2006
posts:12
votes: 0


No Yahoo, don't do it! I like my ads irrelevant but paying well. The last thing I need are more low-paying but relevant ads...

Well said! In overture the non-relavant can make good money, and the relevant can make great money. In google the non-relevant can make no money and the relevant can make ok money. Don't change overture!

11:37 pm on Apr 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 31, 2005
posts:59
votes: 0


Well if it's going to happen, surely they've got to scrap their strict editorial? Or at least find some that can write grammatically correct English. The state some of my ads have come back in I don't fancy my chances the way it is now.
3:26 am on Apr 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:July 25, 2005
posts:5
votes: 0


Does this mean I'm screwed? I get horrible results with Google because people who use vague terms rank better than my precise terms. On overture, if I think of a term that no one's really bidding on, I win over those who have vague matching turned on. In otherwords, say I think of the term "new home appliances" and bid 14 cents. Now someone else comes along and doesn't think outside the box like I do (sorta), they enter "home appliances" and bid 2 bucks. If they've got broad matching on, in Google they'll override me. In Yahoo, I win! It's like that because precision wins out over broad terms like this. I hope this doesn't change. Google's ad program sucks because creativity in term usage doesn't override crappy/expensive terms/bids. Booo-gle!
3:02 pm on Apr 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

joined:Jan 30, 2004
posts:1035
votes: 0


Don't really care what Yahoo do anymore - they decided a long time ago that quality of distribution partners was not their primary focus.
9:33 pm on Apr 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 25, 2005
posts:677
votes: 0


Agree Overture changes been long time expected

kenmckoon

8:18 pm on Apr 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Inactive Member
Account Expired

 
 


Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum, but I thought this topic was interesting and wanted to chime in as well.

One of the most frustrating experiences with Yahoo editorial is inconsistencies as well. If you get editorial employee Bob, he might approve one one listing, but if you submit a similar listing and get editorial employee Jane, that listing would be declined for some unknown, and unexplained reasoning. Worst part is, they use some generic excuse and expect the advertisers to know what exactly that means, and are not quick to address double standards or inconsistencies between different editorial employees.

To add an additional layer of frustration, they don't allow the advertisers to call the editorial team to ask questions or even notify/debate what inconsistencies we find. That to me is pretty poor customer service and/or I think Yahoo often misses out on a good opportunity to become a better player in the market place.