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While the budget feature does not hurt clients that manually update bids on such a large scale, it is advertisers that use bid management software to help close gaps that suffer most. Since auto bid features such as bid jamming and gap closing are reducing the bid gaps it is only natural that Overture would develop a new feature that would combat that.
See my example below, any bid with (Ghost) is a listing that is over budget and no longer showing up in the live results. Many of these advertisers set budgets as low as $1 and therefore never show up
1 = 3.50 (Ghost)
2 = 1.70
3 = 1.10 (Ghost)
4 = 0.15
5 = 0.10
Now assume your listing is Position 5 at 0.10. Now if you set your bid software to place a listing at the top of the largest bid gap you would have the results below. This would leave you paying $1.71. If Overtures new budget feature was not in place you would be paying $0.16 because the largest gap would be between 1.70 and 0.15.
1 = 3.50 (Ghost)
2 = 3.49 (Your New Bid)
3 = 1.70
4 = 1.10 (Ghost)
5 = 0.15
Now take the same example with your bid software set to place you in position 3 and at the top of the gap. This again results in you paying extra, plus you will really be in position 2 instead of 3.
1 = 3.50 (Ghost)
2 = 1.70
3 = 1.69 (Your New Bid)
4 = 1.10 (Ghost)
5 = 0.15
As more and more advertisers become aware of this problem they can abuse the system and cost competitors lots of money. Also new advertisers are well know to overbid in the beginning until they figure out that they are not getting back what they expected. Instead of changing their bids, many will just lower budgets to a $1 as you can’t turn your budget off once you set it up. The only way is to either cancel your account or call overture. This means that the fastest and best way to turn off an account is to lower the budget to $1 or another small amount. This will result in more and more Ghost bids in the overture bidding system.
I have talked to various people at Overture and a few people will tell you that they are aware of this problem and may be working on a fix. However I was also told that the benefits far outweigh the downfalls and that it is unlikely that anything will change. They may however offer a fix to larger customers. That of course would leave out most people…
Overture (Yahoo) needs to do some serious thinking if it wants to keep its customers. We may be forced to abandon Overture completely and spend our money elsewhere, just like many have already done.
I have talked to various people at Overture and a few people will tell you that they are aware of this problem and may be working on a fix. However I was also told that the benefits far outweigh the downfalls and that it is unlikely that anything will change.
Well the benefits are in Overture's direction. Higher bids mean more money. Why they can't have their system working like Google, I don't know.
Why they can't have their system working like Google, I don't know.
To have a system like AdWords relies on a certain amount of trust that they will operate the system honestly. We can not see what others are bidding.
Ask yourself if, given past history and the possible loss of MSN, would you trust them to run a system like AdWords?
I wouldn't!
To have a system like AdWords relies on a certain amount of trust that they will operate the system honestly. We can not see what others are bidding.Ask yourself if, given past history and the possible loss of MSN, would you trust them to run a system like AdWords?
I wouldn't!
1. I don't trust google. They have done NOTHING to prove trust that any other PPC has done. Infact i see more adsense on shady sites then i ever see overture.
2. Yahoo's own distribution & reach is VAST with OR without MSN.
Google is google.. too many people try and "trust" them and get Burnt. Google is out for profits, not out for you.
Is this really a problem? I don't see it.
We have an XML relationship with Overture. IF an advertiser has hit budget for the day, and we ask for the current "Market State" on a term that this advertiser is bidding on, they "will not" appear in the data we receive from Overture, for our bid management technology.
In your first example we would get this back from Overture:
1 = 3.49 (Your New Bid)
2 = 1.70
3 = 0.15
1 pays $1.71, 2 pays $0.16, 3 pays $.01 more than #4....
But, since the ghost bidder you keep talking about doesn't appear in the data we receive, we would set the #1 at a maxbid of $1.71 not $3.49..
If you want to try and disprove my point, sticky me a keyword where you think ghost bidders maxbids are showing in the results, and I'll be happy to pull the current MarketState data...
Overture is as aggressive as they have ever been with trying to generate profits for themselves these. I've received so many sales calls about why I'm spending less and less of my clients' money each month. I tell them straight up their system has been terrible lately and that prices in the last 2 months are up at a rate I've not seen a long time. I tell anyone there that if I had other options I'd pull ALL of my client budgets from them on business principle/practices alone. What can they say to that? They always say 'I'm sorry to hear that'. And then I tell them everyone feels this way. I used to like Overture too :)
PPC's are driven by OUR need to be number ONE.
Otherwise, we'd all be at 10 cents a click...
Overture has always been (imho) a bit shady in their tactics. I sure don't look for this to improve now that they are owned by Yahoo.
The other poster here had it right - wake up - THEY are in it for THEM, and any change they make is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
As for being made at Overture, they're not the ones bidding up CPCs, it's the advertisers doing that.
Seems like a lot of advertisers are backed up against a conversion rate wall - focus on getting over that wall, as complaining about CPC's won't change a thing.