Is Overture a horizontal monopoly?

[alex_cross]

Is Overture a horizontal monopoly? If so, why are there no companies suing them?

[daroz]

Can you elaborate?

Overture does have competitors (I.E. Google) so I'm not following what you're saying.

[Mardi_Gras]

There's a big difference between being a dominant player - which I am sure Overture is - and being a monopoly. I'm sure Google might want to dispute any assertion that Overture is "the" dominant PPC provider. In fact, there's another thread here about people who have quit using Overture entirely in favor of AdWords.

I'm not sure on what grounds any competitor would sue Overture. What were your thoughts on the basis for a lawsuit?

[andreasfriedrich]

No, because nobody is suing them ;). This is pure legal positivism.

Andreas

[alex_cross]

There are horizontal and vertical monopolies. Horizontal monopolies are illegal, vertical ones are not. You could own a ford, chevy, subaru, honda, toyota, etc... dealerships but you could not own all of the ford dealerships in say chicago. Overture is headed this way.

[Mardi_Gras]

I still don't understand what basis you think there would be for making a legal claim that Overture had an illegal monopoly on PPC services...

[daroz]

Stop me if I'm wrong but what I think Alex is getting at is that with Overture gobbling up SEs (and then adding it's paid listings) and at the same time expanding deals with the major players, i.e. Yahoo, MSN, etc, that Overture is working toward a monopoly for the PPC area...

.. I think.

Is that what you're getting it?

[alex_cross]

Yup...that is what I am getting at.

[Mardi_Gras]

Gobbling up smaller competitors doesn't exactly qualify as monopolistic behavior...:)

[daroz]

I've been thinking about this a bit, and while I do see the point-of-view from which you are bainsg your argument I think it's a little (understatment) premature.

Right now to two titans on the block are clearly Google (Search) and Overture (PPC exposure).

(Note: I have -0- facts to backup my claims of Overture PPC getting more exposure it's just an educated guess -- I'll happily stand corrected if appropriate)

Each now has a offering in the others core stregnth, Google AdWords and Overture Search (See AV and FAST).

On a company-wide basis you can't call either a monopoly.

On a horizontal basis you can argue Google has the monopoly on search, obtained quite legally and ethically via best-of-breed quality etc...

Overture has the larger market share of PPC because, presumably, you can 'get away with more' on Overture (popups for example) and I belive Overture gives larger chunks to it's partners.

If you want to argue either is attempting to create a monopoly (illegally) you would have to have evidence of monopolictic tactics, pressure, etc. I just don't see Google strongarming companies, nor Overture.

Note that it is completely legal in the US to have a monopoly, but it is illegal to ACT as a monopoly. If Google were the only search engine and it acted ethically and in the same manner it does now it would have nothing to worry about. If, however, it attempted to override PR values, or de-list potential competitors (not that it is/has) then and only then would it run afoul of the law.

(Note IANAL, your mileage may vary)

[alex_cross]

Gobbling up smaller competitors doesn't exactly qualify as monopolistic behavior...:)

What percentage of the searches is Overture now responsible for? All that is left is google and msn. You can argue that the SEO is becoming obsolete because of Overture.

[daroz]

How do you want to define searches?

FAST and AV still repesented, even combined, a trivial percentage of 'pure search' in comparison to Google (which has some market share in the neighborhood of 80%).

If by 'search' you include PPC -- then I'm not entirely certain, but I belive that Overture has the larger potential exposure. (But I'm not entirely sure)

[alex_cross]

I am including PPC when I count searches since the common person on the internet does not know what overture is or controls. How many of the top 15 search engines that used to control 99% of the searches are either now owned or use overture?

[daroz]

Let me put it this way:

Lies, Damn Lies, Statistics and Studies

You can make your top 15 my company, at which Overture will 'seem' larger... or my personal favorite, because it'll make this message short:

In the number one spot, without question is Google with ~75-80% market share. You can take the other 20-25% and devide it along the other 14 and unless you want to make the argument that Goolge is the monopoly it just won't fly.

[Mardi_Gras]

You can argue that the SEO is becoming obsolete because of Overture.

Well, I might agree that SEO is becoming obsolete because of PPC (not because of Overture)...but what does that have to do with Overture being a monopoly?

I'm sorry...I'm just really not sure what your argument is, particularly in light of the fact that Google is a fierce competitor to OV in the PPC market, and top webmasters on this board are discussing how a PPC campaign based on Google alone can be successful.

Of course, it is Mardi Gras in New Orleans...maybe I'm just missing something :)

[alex_cross]

My point was just to show how much Overture is affecting the internet.

I believe that between Overture and GOOGLE they would both be considered close to a monopoly.