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I spend almost $500 (edited) USA a day at Google and wanted to work with Overture. I am just going to give up. I am so sick of their editors I cannot stand it anymore. I post offer, they get approved. I decide I need to change or tweak the tracking url so that I can refine my test results, and they refuse the change in the url. This makes no sense! Nothing else changed except one tweak in my url. They reject it saying "ownership" or "affiliate"
Another scenario, I have offers up, and like most of you, I am promoting offers via affiliate programs. Of course I do not own or manage each website. I had an offer up recently, and I stated clearly "Affiliate" . It went well for weeks. I edited, changed one stinking word in the description and now I get "Ownership" as reason for rejection.
I just do not get it. Apparently they just do not understand the frustration of this game.... Guess it is not worth it...
[edited by: glenv at 7:12 pm (utc) on Feb. 27, 2003]
<sorry, I mis-read the post; give overture a call about all of this>
[edited by: sem4u at 7:04 pm (utc) on Feb. 27, 2003]
Glen are you by any chance based in the UK, if so, may be able to point you in the direction of someone at Overture who could help.
Shak
Yes, I am already successfully using Google.
Perhaps I should first get insite as to "redundant crossover".
I have looked on these forums but cannot seem to see a discussion describing crossover PPC:
For instance, if you do major advertising with Google, what other engines should you not worry about advertising with? Where is there redundancy?
Same with Overture, Findwhat, etc.
I think a chart or discussion of this would really help.
As far as Overture goes, I honestly tell you I do not get it. I am really not too naive. I am fairly competent, (always in a hurry though) but their system boggles my mind.
$500 US a day at Google
Google gets $180,000 from you a year, and you can't get some lovin' from a manager at Overture?
Have I done it?
HECK NO
Opening myself up to another editor rewiew would almost insure a reduced income.
I'm just going to wait for the editor policy to change. If that takes another year, so be it.
imho
For the past year or so there have been a number of things that I would like to change on many of my Overture ads to possibly improve ROI.
Have I done it?
HECK NO
Mike you got it 100% correct.
although in Overture UKs defence, they gave us a point of contact, who we could phone to get things DONE, and done they were!
The best scenario I had was when they wanted us to spend more money on a new project, so we asked for a new account to be opened,
then the editor refused to list us because editorial policy did NOT allow sites such as ours.
real strange.
Shak
Their editors can be quite loopy at times and they mark the wrong reason or things like that when rejecting the ad. A live person can be pressed to pay attention to your specific problem.
I think a dedicated editor for bigger customers would be a good thing, they understand your business and where you are coming from.
To be fair though we have had a few instances lately where Google have declined ads, we appealed they accepted our explanation, they were approved.
In a large percentage of cases an appeal will be won, certainly in the UK we have got a good hit rate with appeals.
Not that I am sucking up to them, but more often than not the ones that get declined the second time should not have been accepted the first time, so if you are getting some benefit from ads that have slipped through the net, then be thankful.
I want a dedicated editor, I want them to be UK based (for UK clients). I also want someone from Overture to answer the forms I keep filling in about their Ambasaddor program in the US, but I won't hold my breath on the last one.
I want a dedicated editor, I want them to be UK based (for UK clients). I also want someone from Overture to answer the forms I keep filling in about their Ambasaddor program in the US, but I won't hold my breath on the last one.
Jim, u dissapoint me with a line like that, I am sure that can be arranged, just as long as the coffee is good :)
Shak
Google gets $180,000 from you a year, and you can't get some lovin' from a manager at Overture?
I have a client with similar spending habits on Google, and Overture won't give us the time of day. We have given up on them. I think Overture has somehow convinced themselves that they are a search company instead of an advertising company.
I have never seen a public company go to such outrageous lengths to refuse money from potential customers that are literally begging them to take it.
Reaction: $40/month at Overture doesn't get you the time of day either.
I really do wonder sometimes what they smoke in the Overture editor's lounge.
If they drop the entire ad, is almost like them saying, we don't want your stinking money anymore.
You don't stay in business long with that attitude.
GlenV - it looks like this (at least this is what you should be paying attention to):
AdWords = Google and AOL
Overture= Yahoo, MSN and AltaVista (lycos)
LookSmart= A Check and balance on the Overture MSN (which is touch and go)
Redundancy you ask? There is none (unless you utilize CPC and SEO tactics). If you are spending $500/day - then 1)i would recommend using [brackets] with Adwords and 2)not letting your pride get in the way, when working with the organization that pioneered CPC search results.
I have 10 different ads I run... Every time I change one of them, 2-3 get disabled for no apparent reason. I appeal and they restore them, and usually turn 1 other off. I appeal that one and it goes back in.
To date I have had an ad disabled and reenabled 5 times. Oh, did I forget to mention that ad hasn't changed since it was created?
I won't go into what hapened when I updated my conversion tracking codes in my URLs...
Needless to say while I miss the traffic and CTR rate I feel a hell of alot better shelling out cash to AdWords then Overture.
/me is off to find a Clue-By-4 for Overnight Delivery
The difference seems to be that AdWords editors only care about the item(s) changed, not every stinking thing on your account, every stinking time...
About the reporting tool -- I don't really use either one, other then to count the # of impressions on a keyword and verify the total clicks semi-match my own numbers.
Your point about "hotel" does have some merit - but it's only an issue for some keyword combinations.
You do have one point I will concede -- the Overture bidding process is more open -- in that you can see the bids of your competitors for a keyword. That I would like to see on Google...
Sorry to have stirred up such debate
Constructive debate is rarely a bad thing. Everyone here acts in a professional manner, even though we may have different opinions. Being able to air your opinions and intelligently discuss them allows one to better understand anothers point of view. (And a litle humor doesn't hurt either.)
I don't think the frustration with Overture is the interface, or how or whether it works, but the often silly and sometimes downright GOOFY editorial policies.
Just a few weeks back we changed some ads we have had running for almost 18 months - the only change was that we added the "?source=overture" for tracking.
Some idiot editor disapproved most of them. I complained to a higher level and they were all reinstated, but the simple fact is that this should never have happened at all.
I have had editors kick back ads that were totally relevant due to "not being relevant" simply because the editor could not make the connection between "battery" and "batteries".
At other times I have had batches 40+ new keywords go in without a hitch. There is a lot of inconsistency there.
Adding a tracking url, changing a landing page, gets terms booted out every time I do it.
Why bother working with a new client who HAS an Overture account, and try and rewrite copy, track results, or increase CTR which will (ATTENTION OV EDITORS) -- Create more revenue for Overture.
I just begged and pleaded with a client to double their OV spend, which they agreed to do. Next I setup tracking URLs and changed nothing else.
The result? - they lost 40% of their already approved and PRODUCTIVE terms.
The USERS had already deemed the relevance to be spot on with their purchases.
I now have to bid way too high to achieve the FORMER spending level, resulting in far LESS traffic, hence less revenue for the client - who will soon drop OV altogether based on my "advice".
Nevermind the damage to my reputation.
@#$% Overture, you're making it VERY hard to sell your services. ROI is dropping.
If they want to retain only their top customers - who don't even look at their ROI, this is a great way to go about it.
Rumour has it that "editorial problems" are TOP priority for Overture at present and we should notice changes in 6-8 weeks.
Shak
We had to make some judgement calls on a few, we were adding a tracking URL for completeness, not because we got loads of traffic to the keyword, so in the end the easy decision was to remove the keywords, and we haven't missed them a bit.
I believe that Overture have got some keywords in some industries set up to be automatically approved, and some in certain industries to be red flagged.
We love Overture really, but it can get frustrating at times, but I understand the importance, and with the human element and many editorial people being fairly new you have to allow bedding in time. Appeals take a little time, but download the rejections as a spreadsheet, send them off to your account manager with an explanation and things should be OK.
No, I am not sitting here looking for a conspiracy but I am a realest and recognize signs of a successful company. They cannot continue to cater to the whims of small potatoes like me.
If I am wrong, and I hope I am, they need better means of implimenting quick resolutions to these problems. The sad fact is they own a large portion of this industry that is soon to become monopolized and they know they have us where they want us. We need them, and they know it. The ONLY way they will fix these problems if we all decided to fire them. We all realize that is fiction so in the mean time, we are stuck in this mess.
I suspect that those defending Overture are those that have cultivated key advertisements and have been with them a long time. I also suspect if they were just trying to break into the Overture world they would have as much of a problem as the rest of us.
PS - The only reason I am stirring this mess up is not for purpose of debate but rather to rattle loose some ingenuitive ideas from the Overture Seniors. They should be congratulated for their ingenuitiveness (?). I just want them to shake a little of it over me...
