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Overture is to buy Alta Vista for $140 million.
Guess this is one of the "enhancements" we were told would happen as part of the sweetener for 10 cent minimum bids.
I think Overture knows something we do not.
They probably will loose Yahoo and/or MSN soonest.
Why buy a competitor to your existing clients?
So who can remember how to optimize for AV?
I haven`t concentrated on AV for ages, but I guess I have to brush up my knowledge ASAP. :)
It maybe all very well Overture buying AV, but what are they going to do to pull the punters back?
Is INK now going to show on AV?
Initially no. They are planning an Overture / AV Combo. However, there are plans on merging INK in later. After an analysis of the search results (e.g. Relavancy) They will deside whether to drop AV. All should be known within 3 months.
My personal opinion
It will end up Overture and Ink with the already paid for AV listings going in INK.
Chris
Mr Holl, the Marketing Director of Overture Germany, used to be Altavistaīs Marketing Director Germany,Austria,Switzerland before.
any other known "team-crossovers"?
Are the "good old boys" getting themselves their "good old AV" back? :-)
sincerely,
denic
Why would MSN not buy LookSmart...which gives them index search through WiseNut (although out of date), PFP through LookListings and develop their own PFI product, and continue to use Overture - or more likely develop their own PPC product, which is increasingly looking more likely so that they get back the control which so many portals have lost to Overture?
Itīs not that much a problem NOW, because Altavista is not really an important search engine. Just theory, but what horror would it be if they bought something a little biGGer (which might, in theory again, become possible after Googleīs IPO).
But maybe, Overture is smarter than most of us expect and will be improving AVīs algo - understanding the value of independent search results. Of course, below the sponsored listings.. :)
That was clear writing on the wall with the Ink purchase. Lots of people seem to have missed the point of that completely.
Yahoo
Google
MSN
Overture
with everyone else being gobbled up as an acquisition target. At least the money involved is more sensible, and poorly run companies will always be prone to takeover, and AV lost the plot from being the dominant force in the market which is inexcusable.
For that reason alone I think Google will have to go IPO to maintain their position, with other "super-powers" grabbing market share eventually they will turn attention to how to take Google market share.
How long is the AOL/Google contract?
Yahoo
Google
MSN
huh? That doesn't make sense. Why would INK merge in with Overture and AV when Yahoo buying up Ink? Please explain more.
I'm with NFFC:
Company not very good at search buys another company not very good at search ....
Big Whoop. I don't plan to do any hand wringing just yet about optimizing for OverLaVista!
Considering all the changes amongst the major players and "has beens" which have taken place over the past year and a half, none of it has had a tremendous effect on Google's ever increasing market share. Yawn.
I'm waiting for some really big headline such as "Google or MSN buys Fast" before I get all worked up. :)
I am deeply active in the PPC world (if not in this forum) and can confidently say that I would do the same if I was a rich and dominating PPC. Why? well for exact reasons Overture says and emphasizes REPEATEDLY: AV is a great testing platform with loads and loads of value-added services and products and patents (hiding the truth in plain sight? lol). IF ppc is still a gold mine, but getting tougher (or maxed out)...then diversify. Add bablefish, add new search technology, add PFI services, add whatever new thing I can think of, give access to a new customer base to my customers...then package, rinse and repeast (ACROSS THE WORLD).
Consider, PPC is barely beginning across the borders (frankly speaking). And I am mostly NOT referring Europe, not that Espotting is even considering such kinds of diversification (still fighting tooth and nail directly in PPC area). If I were espotting, in fact, I'd more worried than anybody.
I don't think ppl are givin this enough credit or overlooking this in search of deeper buy-out meaning. Of course, buyout is always on the agenda, remember OVER is a idealab venture (bill gross) and am sure that a fat check at some future date must be a consideration. But immediately speaking, buying AV just expands their potential product base for iteration across their global companies. Desparation my left foot. Remember that Overture is GREAT at expanding into foreign markets...they are great at turn-key solutions and iterating. Now they can do that with whatever "mini" products they can get outta AV...well worth the price. THAT above all else has been one of their biggest virtues. Investors will like that as soon as the first Overture PFI service comes out. The junk yard sale was a good analogy.
In this light as well, I also think Chris_F was dead on regarding the search engine algorithm. The AV search algorithm will be evaluated and tossed if it ain't up to snuff. AV's search is one of many things that comes from AV...but way behind in the "Plus 1 value-added sense" compared to all the other goodies (like patents). An interesting related thought is whether OVER is specifically testing the alogorithm just to see if it can cut down one of its biggest overheads: the 100+ PEOPLE in its US offices alone that have to approve listings (yup that's all they do)! People are a pain to manage and expensive. All business owners know that. Google has always had that advantage and OVER knows it. OVER would LOVE do something that would let them get rid of those people (and thus, increase margins) and not decrease listing quality (again just a thought).
Anyway, those are my 2...or 5 cents. :)
But one thing IS for sure, Over is good at keep everyone on their toes.
;)
I hear you, but you didn't address a couple of important issues which are behind the desperation comments.
Again, I'm not following that closely, but from what I can tell, Overture had a great idea, pay for click. First to market. But VERY EASY to copy. Their lifeblood is clicks.
How big a chunk of their business is Yahoo? If it's 10%, then I agree with you. If it's 80% or so, then they are in deep doo doo the day Yahoo closes the doors. AV won't make a difference.
The reason it is viewed as desperation is that making a move like buying AV which would be viewed by their paying customers like Yahoo as VERY threateneing, this would push their clients into developing their own pay per click. Why would Over do that if they didn't feel that their clients would do so anyways.
And you made a great point about the employees. Google has replicated the PPC of OVerture, but in an ez automated way, allowing expansion etc much easier. If google wanted to sell paid results, they could ease the restrictions on their PPC and beat OV at their own game overnight, together with the best backfill in the business. I'm surprised G hasn't even thought of it yet...
I can see Yahoo automating PPC much quicker than Overture. When overture sells to companies search results, people are interested in the paid placement, not the backfill. So OV needs to laser focus on the paid results rather than the backfill.
To me, all the business signs point to desperation unless they have an angle no one thought of...but I doubt it..
One of those things that make you go hmmmm...
Fast is in Norway. Microsofts' purchases outside of the US have been very few and far between.
I guess this action by overture finally ends a month of wild rumors and speculation that have been going on. The recent big one, was that Yahoo was in talks to buy Overture.
A battlefield must be viewed in two ways:
The things furthest away you must view as if they are at hand.
The things that are closest, you must step back and view as if they were at a distance. This is what O has done.
Brett makes a good point. But also, MS has been lethargic, and drags it's feet clumsily through the markets like a Frankenstein. I have a feeling that they're just now waking up to what's been going on.
Or they're agreeing to have a meeting to decide if they should have a meeting to talk about what the next move is.
[edited by: martinibuster at 3:22 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2003]
Perhaps Overture is moving to gain more control over their own destiny .
1. I am quite certain Yahoo is not 10%, but its not 80% either and that is not a small premise to overlook. The question I elude to more is: what do revenues look like from Overture's foreign (and expanding markets) in comparison to yahoo US listings? Frankly, espotting doesn't keep OVER up at night, but I bet the reverse is true. OVER has free reign in Japan and is hitting other markets HARD. Now imagine AV is broken up into little AV pieces for repacking as value-added services. No more competitive threat to partners, yet added revenue streams and lower margins (via automated listing approvals?). Sounds good to me....as Overture AND an affiliate.
The reason it is viewed as desperation is that making a move like buying AV which would be viewed by their paying customers like Yahoo as VERY threateneing, this would push their clients into developing their own pay per click. Why would Over do that if they didn't feel that their clients would do so anyways.
Why? Cost, especially on the margin. Starting up their own PPC isn't NOT a small venture, even for Yahoo, and its even more expensive to get advertisers to convert dollars to Yahoo when Overture already has most of the advertisers cornered. Yahoo IS making fairly "free" money (as such things go) from Overture listings (revenue share on clicks). So, paying customer? yes and no. They are paid as well. Sure, one day Yahoo may go PPC....but in the meantime, OVER's move is neither threatening nor of desparation....but as a great way to ensure better sponsored services from OVER, at little if almost no cost to Yahoo.
Still, let's look at the other view, as an advertiser, if you are getting results with Overture and Yahoo starts its own PPC, do you necessarily DROP overture? Many will of course, but most won't (or frankly, most of the important ones) won't. As long as OVER is giving convertible results then why move? Maybe add, but not move. Further, most advertisers actually just expand their PPC advertising, but don't necessarily cut back on one to do so (again, the "important" one...sorry to say).
In other words, I would think OVER is more likely to chop AV up into usable value-added services, then try to compete as portal---a tough tough game (try goto again?...not!). Further, Yahoo US going PPC is light years from being the same thing as saying Yahoo Japan PPC. Noooo waaaaaaay Yahoo is iterating PPC fast enough (especially since its still even heresay in the US!) for Over to sweat over international PPC threats from its partners. OVER can make truckloads of more cash on the new PPC related services (gained from AV experiments) in US AND ESPECIALLY ABROAD before such services are even a twinkle in international-Yahoo-PPC's eye. Talk about value for investors and for a buyout! Now, THAT will create a true COMPLETE product solution that any of those others, like MSN, would scoop as Bill Gross retires for a life of a philathropy. Yahoo can do what they want with their PPC at that point....but they will still be play catch-up big time. So would it even be worth it? hmmm.....
I'm surprised G hasn't even thought of it yet...
Short answer: they probably did! just couldn't! :O
Consider....if you were starting out as a new PPC (primary purpose was to be a PPC) how would you automate an approval process for listings? Espotting obviously looked at the overture biz model, said "I can do that!". But with no convertable base of "netizens/end-users" (as google and GOTO did), Espotting went directly to advertisers and partners to start. So, the only automated system up to snuff was the Google one, but you can't use that if you have no end-users to click the links (or advertiser's listings would disappear immediately)...Not very much incentive for advertisers there. Thus, Espotting certainly wasn't interested in having its core competency be a "search engine and/or portal" right out of the gate, just as overture isn't now. IMO.
So, if you know of a system other then googles to automate listing approvals.....apparently the going rate is some portion of $140mill. LOL ;) let me know and I'll guartantee I can set up a few interesting meetings for ya (for a commmision of course..lol. jk).
whaddya think? Any more convinced? lol didn't think so...oh well, this is fun anyway. :D
**puts away kryponite** :P
soo...um...yah! what they said! Ha!
lol. :P
There was quite a stir here when LookSmart bought Wisenut and just look how they have revolutionized the search industry! :)
I'd agree with Liane. I don't see any traffic from either Altavista or Wisenut and I've never heard of anyone I know using either search engine. It doesn't seem like somebody else buying Altavista is going to change any of that in the near future. I don't understand why Altavista would be worth that much money. I get more traffic from the Google search box on the Earthlink web site than I do from Altavista.
There will be more takeovers for sure, what is going on with the chart (NASDAQ:ASKJ) on AskJeeves? Something is happening here. As well with (NASDAQ:LOOK)
And even on a market down day (NASDAQ:ASKJ) is still moving higher, up 500% since October 2002, up almost 4.5% today
etrade [clearstation.etrade.com]
etrade [clearstation.etrade.com]
Do not forget that this industry is in consolidation and a bigger buyout than Overture with Altavista or Yahoo with Inktomi is almost a sure bet.
As Microsoft knows how to play hard ball there are more moves left and I think it is in the Microsoft court.
What say yee all?
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:14 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2003]
[edit reason] fixed long url [/edit]
In 1999, CMGI acquired an 83% stake in the search engine for a whopping $2.3 billion in stock and greenery.
Ouch! A $2.16 billion write off. That hurts!
I could be wrong, since I don't follow MS in all their markets, but just from what I pick up here and there, a buyout isn't really their MO, unless they were looking for a quick way to squash the competition.
Maybe OV and Y! know something about this and are prepping themselves for a really big war. I don't know, just speculating in an uninformed sort of way.
Actually MS has a long history of doing this in the software field. They bought the code for DOS, Fox Pro and probably a few others. Online they bought Link Exchange and some other sites before the dot com bust.
The problem is that purchase by MS can often be the kiss of death - by neglect if nothing else. :)
So maybe Overture just took a poison pill to ward off a Yahoo acquisition.
And now Overture can offer MSN Alta Vista as backfill, clearing the way for MSN to rid themselves of Yahoo/Inktomi, and just maybe honing in on a nupital courtship with MSN. After all, if Yahoo boots Overture and replaces them with a home-spun Ink PPC engine it would make a lot of sense for Overture to sew tighter bonds with MSN.
Oh well, back to the soap operas.
