Auto bidding coming to Overture

[redzone]

What is really interesting is that Overture's new "Auto Bidding" model, actually emulates Googles Ad Words Select "Auto Bid" model.. So, now who is really infringing on who?

New Bidding Feature
In late June, we'll offer a new bidding option that will save you time and optimize your budget. This new feature, Auto Bidding, will ensure that you never pay more than 1 cent above the next highest competitor's bid. Look for the new Auto Bidding feature in the Manage Listings section of the DirecTraffic Center®. To see a preview of this new bidding feature, go to [preview.overture.com....]

[redzone]

Since this thread has been moved, I'll update a bit further the Auto-Bidding feature at Overture.

Auto-Bidding will not guarantee position. The functionality works similar to Google AdWords Select, except in the fact that the "Max Bid" Amount will be displayed.

This will not affect third party Bid Management Tools, and actually will make them more effective. Because advertisers using third party tools will not be using the "Auto Bid" function at Overture, their bids will be adjusted on a "case by case" scenario. This in effect means, that their "Maximum" bid amount is "Hidden" from the other advertisers, and therefore more effective.

[HyperGeek]

We will probably see another lawsuit arise from this since you *must* defend any copyrights, trademarks, or patents for them to remain active.

If the auto bid feature in AdWords is something that gave it a separate identity from Overture's system, it'll be interesting to see if Google moves on this.

[Winooski]

Auto-Bidding will not guarantee position. The functionality works similar to Google AdWords Select, except in the fact that the "Max Bid" Amount will be displayed.

I don't understand. Where would the "Max Bid" be displayed? In the SERPS?

[redzone]

Yes, In the listings....

[bodine]

redzone: What do you mean by, "This will not affect third party Bid Management Tools, and actually will make them more effective."

I don't see how this benefits Third Party Bid Management Tools (BMT) at all. Thus, if I use Overture's system and enter in a high number, my bid will always be updated, and I can tell how high the other person's bid is, because I will be a penny higher. And, the BMTs are limited as to how many times they can update in one day-- I'm sure Overture's is not. Maybe I'm missing something. Please explain.

As far as the lawsuit is concerned, I don't think they have much to worry about. There is another, small PPC that has been using "proxy bidding" for at least a year. Maybe they could sue both Google and Overture. :)

[andrewg]

Won't affect third party tools? Doesn't it pretty much make them obsolete?

Looks like a clear infringement on Google. In any case, the winner in the end is the advertiser. Lower cost and ease of use. Set and (almost) forget.

[EliteWeb]

Here's my question after it auto bids you higher, when the competition goes out does it leave your bid at the high amount. ie: only up and not down?

[redzone]

bodine & andrewg:

Maybe this example help you understand why Overture's Autobidder will not work as well as a 3rd party tool.

Advertiser A - Set's Auto-bid Max at $1.00
Advertiser B - Set's Auto-bid Max at $.50
Advertiser C - Set's Auto-Bid Max at $.25

Then, Advertiser B increases Auto-bid Max to $.99, because he can see that "A" is at $1.00 and "C" is at $.25.

So, Advertiser A Pays $1.00 CPC, B ONLY Pays $.26 CPC, and C pays a maximum of $.25...

Unless Advertiser A decreases his Auto-Bid Max to $.98, he is overypaying $.74 a click, because he will pay $1.00 while Advertiser B is only paying $.26..

With flat bidding and using a third party tool (Especially one w/ some ROI functionality), Advertiser A would not be over paying $.74, because the third party tool, would adjust the bid downward until Advertiser B had the bid gap..

[Marcia]

From another angle, how will this affect those who manage bids for others, with or without tools? Will it eliminate the need for their services? Or appear to, from the perspective of clients?

[redzone]

Marcia,

IMO the added functionality will create "mass" confusion for "end advertisers", and necessitate the need for consultants and 3rd party providers even more.

I used a simple example above, all three advertisers using Overture's Auto-Bid function. But what happens to the "mix" when one of the top 3 advertisers is using a "flat" bid for the keyword, or two of the top 3 are using "flat" bid.. You can see where I'm going.. Unless Overture "clearly" indicates in the SERPS which bids are "Auto-Bid", and which are "Flat Bid", it will be a nightmare for an advertiser to keep up with the bid management process.

One poster said, I'll just boost my max bid so high that I won't have to worry about it.. That's fine until #2 decides to boost their max bid to $.01 under you. Then you are paying that high bid ceiling, until you go check your bids manually. And #2 is only paying $.01 above #3's maximum bid...

IMO Overture needs to either stay with a 100% flat bid system (as now), or move 100% to a Google like max cap system. A mix of both could possibly be deadly to an advertiser's budget.

[bodine]

redzone: Thanks. I think I see what you are saying. You are assuming that it will collapse the bids to the upper range. When it was rumored that Overture would have such a thing, I wondered the same thing.

In other words, who is Overture looking out for when they designed this tool: themselves or the customer?

If they looked out for themselves, they would up the bids towards the max (parallel to your example):

Advertiser A: Max bid= $1.00 -> $0.51
Advertiser B: Max bid= $0.50 -> $0.50
Advertiser C: Max bid= $0.25 -> depends on what the rest are. If the next one is $0.05, then this should be $0.06. If the next one is static at $0.24, then bid would be $0.25.

If they looked out for the customer:

Advertiser A: Max bid= $1.00 -> $0.08
Advertiser B: Max bid= $0.50 -> $0.07
Advertiser C: Max bid= $0.25 -> If next bid is $0.05, then $0.06. If the next bid is higher, then all of the ones above it will be higher.

In example #1, I agree, there would be a need for BMTs; in example #2, I could see there could be some collusion going on among bidders.

Am I making sense, or am I off? Also, the BMT can only change the bid 6 times a day.

Does anyone know how Google's AdWords Select works (i.e., collapse bids on the upper, or lower, range)? It may be different because it requires a minimum bid for some terms.

[garry]

Hi guys

I have concerns over alot of Auto tools......isnt this the same type of thing that caused a major slide on the DOW several years back....the market slipped a bit and triggered off everyones auto buy/sells into a massive frenzy that was pre programmed and out of everyones control until the smoke settled.

If 5 people settled for top place on auto on a 10 cent bid.....it could double (100 %)in a day.

Wont seem extreme for people on a $3.00 bid already.

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Cheers from the Outback

[garbageman]

Please bare with me. I am new to these forums, and I will try to be as clear as I can with my statements. Hope this makes sense when I'm done....

I too, am concerned with GOverture's new Auto-bid tool. I must agree with redzone, that the added functionality will create mass confusion. I deal with Goverture and a 3rd party bidding service on a daily basis and they confuse me all the time:). With the many "bid changing options" available through 3rd party services pertaining to time of bid changes, frequency, max price, bid gap strategies etc. I find it near impossible to keep up with who's doing what, as I find myself more concerned with the bid wars that get out of hand. For instance, what about the "mix" that redzone mentioned?

Advertiser A - Set's Auto-bid Max at $1.00
Advertiser B - Set's Flat-bid Max at $.50
Advertiser C - Set's Auto-Bid Max at $.25

Assuming these are the only competitors for the bid, then C would be paying $0.05, B $0.50, and A $0.51. Makes a nice juicy bid gap for GOverture. This happens all the time now, even when using 3rd party management. The top two guys will duke it out, each stepping over the other, while position 3 sits there at $0.05!

If this new bid tool really worked the way it should then the bidding should start at their minimum ($0.05) and increase one cent for each postion above that. Then, there would never be a bid gap. If "Joe" and I want to compete for placement on a word and he sets his max at $1.00, and I set mine at $0.50, we should still only pay $0.06 and $0.05 respectively. Does that sound totally ridiculous to you guys?

I am not yet ready to give up my 3rd party management until I see proof of the new GOverture tool.

Also, the BMT can only change the bid 6 times a day.

I received word yesterday that the 6 bid change rule has been lifted from some of the approved bid management services. The service I use is now allowed to change bids 24 times a day, a minimum of 30 minutes apart.

[thumbcandy]

Which tools do you use as a matter of interest as I’m looking at two and finding it hard to decide? (AutoB or BidR). P.S. This is not a blatant ad for either.

[redlion]

Overture seem to be playing catch up on this - Espotting already offer an autobid tool in Europe (see this thread [webmasterworld.com...] ) - which does exactly the same, i.e. closes bid gaps and saves money.

Does anybody know if Overture are going to offer this in Europe?

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 5:23 am (utc) on June 26, 2002]
[edit reason] fixed url [/edit]

[andrewg]

Maybe a dumb question, but is there any means of globally changing all the bids in your account from fixed to auto? Or if you have 500 phrases, do you need to go through and click 500 drop-down boxes?

[Mardi_Gras]

andrewg - you don't have to pull down every check box, thankfully.

At the top left of the "manage listings" box, you'll see a checkmark symbol. Clicking that symbol selects all the listings. Then click on the "Bid Options" box (you'll find one at the top and bottom of the listings). From there you can select the "convert all to auto bidding" option.

All the listings you have checked (which will be all of the listings in this case) will be updated to auto bidding.

[hurlimann]

redlion, They already do

[bodine]

Is it just me, or is their new auto bidding feature worthless?...At least from the advertisers' perspective; from Goverture's, it's great-- it makes them more money.

[mundonet]

So we are 3 competitors jockeying for a keyword since a couple of months. I see that the 2 others choose autobid so I also do it, bidding much higher than them. The system updates and I see their real max bids: $.21 & $.20. So I lower my maxbid to $.19.

Result? They are now paying $.21 & $.20 while my cost is $.05 to be #3. Big gap, mucho dinero for Overture. Before autobid, they would have paid $.07 & $.06 to be on top of me.

Who wins with autobid? At least I have the satisfaction of making my competitors spend more (is that Christian?). Great scam for Overture!

[indierocker]

I have a question hopefully someone can answer. My third party bidding tool has not worked since Overture redesigned their site. I have been using ApexPacific's KeywordBid Maximizer's for Overture and received emails from them about what steps I needed to do to be in compliance. I have followed them exactly, but the autobidding is not working and I have stopped receiving the autobid emails from Apex.

Did anyone else experience this as well? Any thoughts? I have emailed Apex a couple of times but I am still awaiting instructions.

Appreciate your help.

[tedster]

If "Joe" and I want to compete for placement on a word and he sets his max at $1.00, and I set mine at $0.50, we should still only pay $0.06 and $0.05 respectively. Does that sound totally ridiculous to you guys?

Wouldn't you get ticked? You say you're willing to pay .50 - but the software won't let you step over a mere .06 bid.

I just don't see a model that works here. Every resolution of one scenario has a flaw in another scenario. It sure makes the number one spot less appealing!

[bodine]

tedster: You are right-- I don't see a way to make it work. I have thought of one idea, though. Have advertisers log in, change the bid, and whatever they change it to is actually what they pay. And, because I'm the customer, I can change my bids any time I want, as often as I want, using any tools I have at my disposal. And, if the servers have trouble because of it, they need better servers, or more efficient software to run on said servers. :o

[Doc_Starr]

GoToast is the most powerful of the bid management tools and integrates with Overture's autobid to give you some interesting possible ways to go. Also they have rules based managment which gives you all sorts of tactics to use.
Roger

[bodine]

GoToast is also very expensive. I don't think it is worth what they are asking for it.