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Now where are no-where to be seen, as I assume google was unable to calculate an accurate page rank and gave up until the next google dance lark.
My Question is, does running a small adword campaign speed up getting a Page Rank? Surely, the must have an obligation to give you Page Rank quicker if your giving them your hard earned cash?
I assume getting into ODP and Yahoo also increases the change of getting a PR rank quicker, aren't these still "golden sites" and any links from golden sites help increase page rank right?
Does anybody have a proven list of golden sites for example?
Now as to your question
Ok, I want a page rank of 1, after the next dance, i.e. after 7th March 2003.What the * exact * minimum I have to do? Assume I have build good common sense sites.
get one link one one page with page rank of 1?
The most accurate answer you can get is that you need a that will pass to your page the exact amount of PR that your page will need to get a PR of 1.
According to the published algorithm, if you got ONE link from a site that has a PageRank of ONE, and your link is the only link on that page, you would get a PageRank of ONE. It would not be a toolbar PR1/10. It would probably still be a toolbar PR0/10.
To answer the question that you probably intended, a single outgoing link from a high toolbar PR1 page to your page should get you a PR1. If you can get a link from a PR2 page with less than 10 links you will probably get a PR1. Just about any link from a PR4+ should get you a PR1.
Now I request that you stop accusing me of getting personal and actually go read my posts for the answers to your questions that I considered worth answering. You are getting answers, just not the answers you want.
"We've submitted domains, and last month they all got indexed and appeared in google searches, presumably due to fresh bot and the extremely annoying google dance."
"Now where are no-where to be seen, as I assume google was unable to calculate an accurate page rank and gave up until the next google dance lark."It sounds as though you weren't indexed, just in from the freshbot.
The last update relected the deepcrawl from early Jan.Try reading up on everflux.
And honestly, a PR of 1 or 2 is totally feeble, anyway. I don't mean to get personal, but this is the most tedious thread I've seen since I first found this place. Knife, you should have some respect for these people. You can learn a lot here.
No one can tell you the *exact* minimum. No one. The best we can do is share experience and educated guesses. Take it or leave it.
Ciml told you what it takes: "... get links from pages that have PageRank. Really, it's that simple." That's exactly what it takes ... we can tell you what to do, we just can't specify a minimum to get this or that result.
Note that "simple" is not necessarily the same as "easy". Drumming up links is hard work. Some people try to take shortcuts by building complicated little empires with their own sites linking to each other, but in the long term there's no substitute for inbound links from quality sites that are truly external.
Amongst all the variables, if your site's navigation is well designed, the page rank within your own site plus one or two inbound links would probably be enough to earn PR1 or better for your home page once the index settles down. PR1 is not a very ambitious target, though, so don't stop there!
The bottom line: What Ciml said. Figure out what you need to do and keep doing it.
<12 month's strategies are a waste of time for getting into google. We need to get serious.>
Seriously.. getting listed in Google is easy -- Get links to your site from other pages that are already listed in Google.
If you want to create a "cheat sheet" for Google ranking, that's fine. But I think you're going about it the wrong way. The things you're asking for are a bit generalized, like "Let's make a cheat sheet.. Go!"
Perhaps, try building this in smaller steps. For instance, start with getting listed in Google in the first place, work on a few steps. Then go from there.
When you're done, you'll probably end up with something very similar to Brett's 12-month process, but I guess we'll see what happens :-).
Yes the Algorithm that Google uses to calculate rankings is an exact piece of code - at the time the calculation is done, but which changes monthly at least.
There may or may not be 100 different factors taken into account, but there are a large number, and there are other variables too. No one talks much about the real PageRank numbers that Google uses in its calculations, but the fact is that the value of these numbers is constantly changing as the number of pages in the Google index changes.
The point is that there is a plethora of great advice available here, free for the taking, and it comes from practitioners with years of experiences in the trenches.
What is the exact minimum that you need to do to ensure that your site will be indexed with at least a PR of one on the next Google Index? I have no idea, but if you submit a fresh site to someplace like Gigablast which indexes very quickly and is spidered by googlebot, then that site will be indexed in the next update after the Googlebots deep crawl of that site, and will in all likelihood get more pages indexed and better PR in the months after that. If you want to ensure that you get the maximum PR do a search for Bretts article on Google rankings in twelve months, and ask questions.
I'm only a new member, and I don't wanna overstep my mark, but really.. Everyone here is trying to help!
If you want to know about PR, read the papers, the k's of threads about it here.. If your want to know the exact algo, go and get a job with google!
Getting PR is about getting inbound links, getting listed well is about getting more relevant inbound links than the other sites in your keyword area and building a good, credible website. It really can be that simple!
For my pennies worth, as an answer to the actual question at the begining, I have found that asking googlebot to spider sites that contain an exclusion robots.txt as soon as you set up the domain and removing the robots.txt when the site goes live is the quickest way to get listed (IMHO)
Let's create a real vote list we can all quicky see of rules and axioms
You've repeated this a couple of times in threads I've read.. So DO IT! Set up a site, setup a system to allow the list to be peer reviewed and come here and ask people about how to get the site listed.
I don't see what is stopping you doing this, as you seem to be sooo keen on the idea?
Nobody but google knows their exact algo so I personally don't know what could be better than an ongoing discussion with very helpful and wise people who are keen to share their knowledge?
What is the exact minimum that you need to do to ensure that your site will
be indexed with at least a PR of one on the next Google Index? I have no idea, but if you submit a fresh site to someplace like Gigablast which indexes very quickly and is spidered by googlebot
That's the things, every body here truly really has no idea, it's to ad hoc. Hence the above
idea of a list of conclusions that can be edited by everyone
and can be "organic" and change with the times. e.g. if ALT text isn't used
it'll quickly go off the list by simple peer review.
A list of friendly sites etc..
Perhaps, try building this in smaller steps. For instance, start with getting
listed in Google in the first place, work on a few steps. Then go from there.
When you're done, you'll probably end up with something very similar to
Brett's 12-month process, but I guess we'll see what happens :-).
Nope sorry, that doesn't cut, as a think tank we have greater power than google,
we just need to agree to get organised- that just seems to me the hard part.
No one can tell you the *exact* minimum. No one. The best we can do is share experience and educated guesses. Take it or leave it.
Again, not good enough, we should be able to come up with a very precise
set of rules. Even if they are "fuzzy" logic.
I'd had sites in within months, with no effort, and virtually NO links,
they were submitted in Nov, and now the site has a PR3 - with very little
content.
Another site, >WITH NO CONTENT<, and virtually no links to it get's a PR3
without trying. It's effectively a doorway page. How do you explain
that? The link test in google, produces 3 sites! Of which
I made no concious effort to get into! I thought a link test only worked if you had PR4?
You can get a site in google with PR3 in a 1-3 months, and you can
get a PR4 also quickly there are ways I've found.
This is probably justluck, BUT I NEED TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT'S GOING ON.
The build good content over 12 month, makes no sense, as this
had NO content in the page just a title.
So this 12 months things makes no sense to me at all, I need to
understand why this is so, and how page rank works makes no sense,
I need real concrete examples and calulations based on real sites. PR is one factor, weighting of the sites that link is clearly another. I also strongly believe there has been a lot of misdirection in this forum. A site that can be edited by any one, with no moderation can take care of that of course.
We need now to get serious - as a group collaborating we can,
we just need to work together.
You've repeated this a couple of times in threads I've read.. So DO IT!
Set up a site, setup a system to allow the list to be peer reviewed and come here
and ask people about how to get the site listed.
OK, that one vote - a few more, that a good idea, I'll certainly
look at it seriously, and I'm quite happy to get a domain and set up a wiki.
"google blackbox" or "how google works" domain maybe. The one
I had got instantly deleted from my profile. I need some
support for this idea, your the first to say it makes sense - as
it's collaborative project, I can certainly kick start it.
Appreciate some more votes.
Why don't you go ahead and create the list, then whomever wants can vote on it?
~Deron
your the first to say it makes sense
Not quite the message I was trying to get across! Doh! ;)
I vote to quit reading this thread....who's with me.
I had my laugh...
it's like a blog with multiple editors and permissions
There is a great deal of experience/wisdom here. Just so you know wisdom is applied knowledge. Take some time and sift through what has already been posted and see for yourself what works. I dont think there is anyone here who can tell you excatly what you want to know. A great deal of Webmastering is trial and error. I have gotten good listings in google, but I dont always tell what is the one uber way to get in.
If you apply the steps of good SEO skills you will get the listings. I will not post them because they have been posted and I have an thing about reposting the same thing 15 different times in one thread. Go back through the post and read what has been posted as well as the links that are provided and you will see what I am talking about.
Facts:
I've not submitted a site to Google since June 2000. Not 1, ever!
Since then I have produced hundreds of sites and thousands of pages. They all appeared in Google within a few weeks or (at most) 3 months. Why?
I got links from Yahoo and DMOZ.
They all have a PR greater than 1!
End of story!
I had a site that had no incoming links but an AdWords campaing for two month: No Google listing
I then got a Yahoo listing and a couple other link: Google listing
I have the doubtful honour of being banned from Google - not once - but twice! We are not talking PR0 here (though I've had that too) - but the whole grey bar deal even though I spend a considerable sum on AdWords monthly. Google this year spent $30.00 on mailing me my Christmas present from the US (much appreciated).
Did it get me unbanned? No!
Did I admit to pushing the envelope - yep! That got me back in - not the thousands I spent on AdWords month after month and year after year.
If you are competing for competitive key phrases, a PR2/3 will not normally help.
If you think your PR would be higher once indexed, the question would be "so why isn't it indexed at all" or perhaps it is, but penalised
If you are competing for niche key phrases, why use adwords?
Links in are comparatively a lot easier to obtain, (not counting the name recognition scenario)
But the answer to the question, "will I get indexed
quicker" using adwords is none-relevant, you may, or you may not but it will not help in the rankings.
Since then I have produced hundreds of sites and thousands of pages. They all appeared in Google within a few weeks or (at most) 3 months. Why?I got links from Yahoo and DMOZ.
They all have a PR greater than 1!
So for each of the new sites, created, you got a link
from Yahoo and DMOZ to those new sites.
Haveyou found a fast-track way to accelerate getting sites into Yahoo and DMOZ.
Or, sites, that you control were already in DMOZ and Yahoo, and you put a link on both of them to your new site, and that's what's got you into google quick.
So to conclude this thread, that is the fastest way to get into google, that we all agree upon?
so this "piggy backing" on top of sites that are already in yahoo and dmoz as I'll call it is the most effective way to get in google quick with a rank of 1 or above - this should occur between 1-5 weeks?
once your in, you can then start building more links to increase the rank, client's want to be in as fast as possible, and if you can promise that within 5 weeks with at least PR1, I think that's prefectly acceptable.
[edited by: The_Subtle_Knife at 6:40 pm (utc) on Feb. 27, 2003]
yeah - pay em
I built a site the other day - brand new domain and all. I linked it from a site I have that is a PR6 (it's not in Yahoo or DMOZ) and 3 days later it was showing up in Everflux and I expect it to stick on this next update. That would make it 10 days from launch to Google inclusion with nothing other than a single link.
fantastic, was the link on the home page?
I think that would be hard for me all the sites I have are PR4-5 on average as far as I know .
so would one two links from PR4 sites to it, what about
this concept of dilution, if I was to get 30 sites in quick, if I put 30 links on the home page of PR 6, does
that dilute the passed PR to less than 1?
Re: Quick fix entry into Google? Why are you so concerned about it? What you got riding on this? ;)
Re: Brett's 12 Month guide - not Wish Wash - pretty damn good in fact. I set up a site, was indexed within days, had 1000 uniques in the first month and am now up to 500 a day.
Re: Your attitude - read and learn young Padawin - just because something may appear to take a long time doesnt mean that there is a better way to do it. The cumulative knowledge of thousands of professionals is here within these forums.....
>>>So to conclude this thread, that is the fastest way to get into google, that we all agree upon?
Er, most of us agreed upon that before you started the thread! :)
Again, read and learn, read and learn.....
Scott
