White Google Bar

IS that a Penalty?

[markatapd]

I just put up a new site and thought I did a great job. I looked last night and received 0/10. I'm pretty sure this is a penalty but could someone verify that for me please. I submittted to Yahoo, ODP and Position Tech 10 days ago. It doesn't show up in the ODP but does in Yahoo. Thnaks for any help.

[John_Caius]

Not a penalty. New sites very often show PR=0, meaning PR<1. Lots of similar posts in the forum, all of which start "I've just put up a new site"! Don't worry. Your PR will rise in the next one or two updates as Google starts to recognise some links into your site.

[markatapd]

Thank you so much. I was scared to death. I have had my rounds with search engines and if they dog this site I was ready to give up. (not really but it is frustrating).

[WebGuerrilla]

A white bar can very well be a penalty. White just means that your score is less than one. That can be caused by natural circumstances, or it could be caused by human intervention.

In your case, because the site is so new, it most likely isn't a penalty.

[John_Caius]

"I'm pretty sure this is a penalty but could someone verify that for me please."

"I have had my rounds with search engines and if they dog this site I was ready to give up."

Have you received a penalty for a site before? Have you done anything naughty with this one? Most of the time sites get penalised it's because the webmaster was trying to manipulate the system excessively - so if you feel innocent then the chances of it being a penalty are negligible. Do you link to any bad neighbourhoods?

[24bit]

When I started two sites, I just had a grey bar until they were indexed. However, I wouldn't worry. It's probably OK.

[markatapd]

Yes I have been bad in the past (and I'm sorry)and made an enemy at the ODP. Most of it was just a disagreeement on what met the ODP guidlines for inclusion. But this site does not link to any bad sites. Its on a different server. I submitted from a different IP address. The only possible link is my name as owner on whois and the phone number goes to a business that was previousley banned under a different url. (FOR NO GOOD REASON I MIGHT ADD)

[John_Caius]

Hm - sorry, but few webmasters get banned for no good reason. What was it that you were supposed to have done with the other business?

[markatapd]

oh I was guilty of building a site that just had affilliate links but I deleted after 2 weeks because it got a penalty from Google. I also listed some sites that I was told not to by a powerful editor because I disagreed with him. Big mistake, sorry. I still think I am right about they should have been listed but I should have pursued it in the forums, which I tried that to. Then thier was a real spammer that I was supposedley associated with because I listed some of his sites and also carried affiliate links to him on some of my sites. So then I find all of my sites and even some sites that I have absolutley nothing to do with listed in an ODP category for spammers. I also found links to my website that I list all of my domains that I own (which is alot). I sell them to customers along with developing the sites becasue they are strong in keywords for my business. I found all of this in the ODP because I had access as an editor and was working my way up pretty well. But anyhow thats in the past. I just want to build good sites and get them listed. Do you think I am banned for life? How much influence does the ODP have over Google and other engines? Sorry for the long post. Is this more info than you all wanted to here? ;-)

[John_Caius]

The ODP has no influence over Google or other search engines. They just choose to spider the ODP and use the RDF dump. There is no ODP editor called Googleguy. :) Were you sacked as an ODP editor too?

See what happens with your site over the next couple of months. If you have genuine reputable incoming links and your site is genuinely genuine then you should start working up the PR ladder. But you're probably experienced enough to know that anyway.

[John_Caius]

Ah, just found out the answer to my own question...

[markatapd]

Yes I was sacked. I didn't realize what I had. I think i've made every mistake you can make. I plan to reapply to the ODP and explain my side but its probably useless. I just want to do things the right way - I think coming here to webmasterworld was a step in the right direction. :-) Don't you? So does the RDF dump include sites the ODP has flagged as bad sites? It probably does, doesn't it? I'll bet that editor went to my web site and included all of my domains on his black ball list even the ones that were not developed. These sites are tanked before I even start on them.

[John_Caius]

You've not done yourself any favours in your history have you? Your biggest problem is that you've been trying to cheat the system, got found out and are now trying to get back to where you were before.

If you want to avoid this happening again in the future then I suggest that it's more to do with changing your attitude towards how to succeed rather than it being about changing an IP address.

The ODP don't sack people without very good reason and usually following discussion between meta editors in the private internal meta forum. I doubt very much that you got sacked because you had a disagreement with a meta.

Succeeding in SEO is simple:

Do:

1) Create one genuine site with a simple non-keyword-stuffed domain name.

2) Build up plenty of useful unique content.

3) Point all your internal pages at your homepage.

4) Exchange links with reputable sites in a similar field to whatever you do.

Don't:

1) Create ten similar sites with slightly differing domain names and link them all together to increase PR.

2) Use cloaking, doorway pages, vanity URLs etc.

3) Volunteer to edit the ODP, add all your sites with keyword stuffed descriptions and no other sites, then complain when a meta lands on you.

4) Try to cheat the system.

That's not rocket science. The spammy SEOs know these basic rules just as well as the honest ones, they just choose to go against them - so I for one will shed no tears when they complain that they've lost out.

[markatapd]

OK I said I was sorry. But I did not try to cheat the system. I honestly felt that I was right and they were wrong. So I just listed my sites anyway. I should not have done that. The ODP is full of sites just like mine and they still list them today. I listed competitors sites right along with mine - no favoritism. I just figured if they list others like mine, then mine should be listed to. The only difference is that in the beginning I was open and honest about my sites, others were not. Its hard to explain without getting industry specific. My customers all have legitimate business's independent of each other. They have brick and mortar and phones and inventory and they really deserve a listing. I am not looking for sympathy, just getting some crap off of my chest. But thanks for telling me the way to succeed at SEO. My problem was ignorance not cheating. If you want, just for fun I will tell you the industry and the situation and you tell me what you think. I already know doing what a Meta told me not to do was stupid.. So i'm stupid and ignorant. But not giving up.

[lazyz]

Grey to white - I wouldn't worry - no inbound links

Green bar to grey - just bad luck - no googlebot

Green bar to white - your doomed! Buy a new domain!
(I've also had luck with letting a domain drop completly out of the index, then getting it back in with quality links after getting slapped with PR0)

[markatapd]

See that how ignorant I am I don't even know what a green bar is - never seen one. :-)

[makemetop]

>Green bar to grey...

Well, it could be just bad luck - or could be you've really been caught!

If you have a grey-bar penalty, it is a lot worse than a PR0 penalty. You can recover (with great difficulty) from a PR0 penalty - you have to beg on one knee for mercy to recover from a Grey Toolbar penalty!

They are (however) mercifully rare - unless you spam (in Google's eyes) unmercifully. Most grey-bars are from just not being included in the index for a cycle and are nothing to worry about.

[John_Caius]

One common complaint about the ODP is along the lines of 'my sites were similar to what was already listed and I'm told that mine can't be listed' - especially when concerning affiliates. If you feel that a listed site contravenes the ODP guidelines then the best thing to do is to air this in the ODP public forum at resource-zone. Then a meta editor will look into the situation and act if necessary.

I wish you the best of luck with sorting your sites out. By the way, you don't need to tell me your industry - I already know what it is! :)

[lazyz]

I think the problem with understanding a penalty is Google never tells you exactly why you are being punished. They leave it up to your own feelings of guilt and guesses.

What sort of spam would get you thrown out the index(grey bar) and what would simply get you a PR0(white bar)?