Forum Moderators: open
I want to reiterate for site owners: ultimately, each webmaster is responsible for what happens on their own pages. If you don't understand what an SEO is saying, make them explain it in plain English. Then you still need to make sure that it's not deceptive. The list of what Google considers deceptive is here:
[google.com...]
This particular SEO is listed in a directory of SEO's, and even has a link to a "Code of Ethics" that looks like a seal of approval. Site owners: just because someone claims to be ethical doesn't mean that they are. I'm honestly not trying to do a scare tactic here--that principle applies everywhere in life. :) The take-home message is common-sense though: do your homework and make sure that you understand what a business partner is going to do. Nobody can look after your own domain as well as you can. :)
Hope that helps,
GoogleGuy
I was wondering, with all these "penalty liftings", whats the deal. Are you confident all spam can be automatically dealt with now? To the point where everything is thrown back into the mix.....
It is good that domains are not black marked now.....maybe less of those quadruple-dash-seperated-domains being used since their smaller counterparts are squeaky clean :)
How would a site owner know if he was penalized. If he/she was penalized by mistake or inadvertently is there a way to
"appeal".
These sites were removed altogether, and will be completely back now
Even though they still do it? Does that make sense to anyone?
Or, are you saying that they are no longer doing it, but they deserved a penalty that lasted a long time?
Very rarely, a webmaster can get a very basic reply confirming that a site is banned. Regarding finding out why, or getting anything done about it, is pretty much impossible.
Bear in mind that I'm not trying to be too hard on Google here. No other s/e does things any differently or better on this issue, but still...
In truth, I strongly suspect cross-linking was the key. I can't be 100% sure without confirmation, but I guess it's pretty likely.
I'm not too disheartened right now. I had a few pr0 penalised sites which returned to the index last update (obviously got hit with a 12 month penalty).
The site I'm referring to was included in the cross-linking but wasn't hit with pr0. It was grey-barred. The cross-linking lasted something like a month or so and was removed as soon as it become apparent it was penalised. I did get one e-mail confirming the site was banned (no reason given) but several e-mails to 'help@', explaining all the above, and that cross-linking is no longer an issue, have always failed to achieve a result.
Happy New Year, anyway :)
Edited for typos.
Think about it, why is GG on unless the dance is tonight? Don't you think he has better things to do?
Anyway, happy new year, GG, and thanks for being so nice to everybody, and for all your help and clarifications etc.
Now, can we please get on with the update? We're all dying of stress here (and I'm used to extremely high stress levels, but this is rediculous)! ;)
go on
signed.................................
As a web developer I understand that the results returned by G and ODP are objective as you can make them and thereby allow me to say with confidence to my fine clients, "If you are the best, you will be seen by the most."
I thank and commend the search engine companies for their contribution to the WORLD COMMUNICATION PROJECT that has brought us all a bit closer. HERE, HERE to ALL and more of the same for the New Year!
freejung: if something important comes along, I'll post I'm sure. But most of the questions coming down the pike these days don't need me to answer them. For January I'll be working hard, so I might not be around as much. I won't disappear altogether though. :)
Actually, I think you've pretty much done your job here, in the sense that we now have a pretty good idea of what Google wants from us (and _doesn't_ want), what we can do to avoid problems etc, which is really what we want to know from Google, IMHO.
Anyway, I'm not worried in any case, but I think it's good for us to express our appreciation. I spent a long time reading a lot of total junk about SEO before I found webmasterworld, and I think the same applies to others as well. This place is a breath of fresh air because it provides solid info and minimal bs, and I think you've contributed to that a lot. It's not every day that you get to talk to people from major players, let alone Google, and it gives us a sense that this is _where it's at_, so to speak. Furthermore, you have a tough job, trying to do PR to a tough crowd like this. I just think you deserve props, that's all.
This type of information is really helpful to all of us who play by the rules, but have made stupid mistakes in the past.
I think if you were to help explain more penalties or reasons that sites or a group of sites have been banned, it would be beneficial to everyone including Google.
Thanks again.
AKA MAJOR ALGO RE-HAUL? :)
I really am going to try to kick the WebmasterWorld habit in January. Really.
hmmm... sounds a bit like a January vacation... see you in Fenuary GG. ;)
Thanks again,
For January I'll be working hard, so I might not be around as much.
.oO( Which I'm sure has nothing to do with that 1st quarter IPO rumor. ) ;)
Larry
Do the Google webmaster guidelines get updated on a regular basis? Is there a place on Google that goes into more details about bans and penalties other than the brief guidelines page?
Our educational site was 'banned' (or at least our domain completely dropped off Google search results for about 4 months now). After several emails beginning in October, we did hear back from help@google.com in a canned message about 10 days ago that told us we did not meet Google's quality standards. This is hard for us to understand - we have several hundred inbound links from newspapers, colleges, national governments, etc.
Even with all the help from numerous members of a different SEO forum (than WebmasterWorld), we have not been able to find whatever it is that has excluded us from Google.
Even with all the help from numerous members of a different SEO forum (than WebmasterWorld), we have not been able to find whatever it is that has excluded us from
Google.
GoogleGuy said,
...with sneaky redirects on those pages.
I still want to know just what is a “Bad Neighborhood” I mean I know it’s ranges of IP numbers Google dose not like, but is there a list somewhere we could look at? Of course not, because then those people that are openly tagged as “Bad” by Google would have legal recourse. And your company would then have to explain just why they think these people are “Bad”.
GoogleGuy also said,
Sometimes I wonder if people realize that we really do try to make the best search result we can...
Lots0, I'll take a stab at these:
sneaky redirect: easy example is a keyword-stuffed page that has a javascript redirect. Bots see the main page, but users get whisked away to a different destination as soon as they land on that page.
The things that can cause penalties are on our guidelines page:
[google.com...]
Bad neighborhoods just means trying to avoid linking to spam. You can't help if someone links to you, but if you link to spammy sites, than can affect the reputation for your site.
Just a quick pass at those questions..
It's a fairly large site (400+ pages) laid out to allow the visitor to find things in various ways but no duplicate pages.
If penalties were lifted for many, what can I do, how long does it take to get back in?
What is especially frustrating is to see so many sites that have similar structures, similar lay out, similar pages, use of the same titles and descriptions I started using years ago. Some of these have exact mirror sites and are still in the index with no penalty.
The strange thing is that when the fresh bot visits (usually most days), then I will get listed again and sometimes on page one but not with any internal pages and often the site description and directory category does not show.
Think I'll get drunk and blame my crying on the booze.
<added> I've gone over and over the guidelines page and do not do anything google suggest not to do </added>
But this dose not make clear anything,
Bad neighborhoods just means trying to avoid linking to spam.
NancyB - please see my comment to markh8624 msg#26
Google doesn't have to, cannot, and should not, commit to exactly what spam is. It is only possible to have GUIDELINES. Not exact rules. Have you actually read the guidelines from the link above?
The guidelines do exactly what they are supposed to do, point you in the right direction and allow you to make choices based on the individual requirements of your site.
And the guides are very principled with respect to site design for search engines vs. users.
