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Defies the laws of PR?

Sites with high PR, but few links, low KWD?

         

Jimmie

7:45 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have been studying my competitors to try to figure out how they got to the top of google in major keywords searches related to my site. I OFTEN find, these site have few links to them, low KWD, if any sometimes it seems, so what gives, what else could account for their high PR?

coconutz

8:19 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>these site have few links to them

  • What is the PR of the pages that link to them?
  • Are there only a few other outbound links on these pages?
  • Are the KW's used in the anchor text?

    It only takes a few good links from some high PR pages to get decent PR. Look at these factors to see if any of these are common to those pages ranking ahead of you. Try to get a link from these pages that are linking to your competitors if you can. One of my competitors had a PR7 with only 12 backlinks, one was from a PR8 page in a major directory.

  • Dante_Maure

    8:34 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    First let me clarify what seems to be a misunderstanding...

    PageRank is a specific formula applied to sites by Google.

    High placement in the search results does not equal "high PR" by definition.

    PageRank is only one of many [webmasterworld.com] factors in Google's ranking methodology.

    You can learn more about this by reading WebmasterWorld's Google Knowledge Base [webmasterworld.com].

    In many cases the overlooked factor is the anchor text of the inbound links pointing to a given page.

    You might try doing an allinanchor: [webmasterworld.com] search at Google for your keywords. If the sites you are curious about turn up you can be sure that the inbound anchor text is a contributing factor to their high rankings.

    Jimmie

    10:03 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    Awesome advice! Thank you both so much! I love this forum! I've grown up as a webmaster so much in just a day of using this forum!

    Jimmie

    10:07 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    Dante_Maure: interestingly, I did an allinanchor: search on my top competitor and nothing came up on them at all...I checked another site I know has major linking and they cam up, so I know I'm entering the info correct. I think I'll go study the PR of inbound links.

    Dante_Maure

    10:17 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    Dante_Maure: interestingly, I did an allinanchor: search on my top competitor and nothing came up on them at all...

    The key to using the allinanchor: command is to search for the keywords themselves not the competitor.

    For example...

    If your site Widget-O-Rama.com is targeting "Fuzzy Widgets" and your number one competitor is WidgetWorld.com, you would do a search at Google like this...

    allinanchor: fuzzy widgets

    This will show you the pages which have "fuzzy widgets" anchor text pointing to them.

    If your competitor is listed in the results, it means they've got "fuzzy widgets" inbound links.

    Jimmie

    10:40 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    dante...I figured that out..and guess what they have only internal links and 1 link odp , and 1 link google directory (same thing) and a PR5 on their homepage and less on their other pages...I can't figure this formula out...and one of the major keywords is nowhere on their homepage, yet they come out on top under a search for that word...the only place I find that keyword is in their title..and they don't even have a description meta tag..and in the description and info google prints...that same keyword that I searched under isn't even in there...what could I be missing that accounts for their SE position for that keyword...combined by the way with another keyword...for example..I search fuzzy widgets and they only have fuzzy..and fuzzy is one of the most popular words searched for, so you'd think the ise of that word alone wouldn't be doing much for them...you'd think they have to at least have widgets in their page somewhere or their description and not just in their title

    SlyOldDog

    10:54 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    The title is the most important factor once you have some pagerank on the site.

    We set the title to any uncompetitive keyword pair and rank number 1 for that pair, and we have only pagerank 6.

    People talk about the hundreds of factors google uses in the algorithm, but in actual fact only a few really matter.

    Jimmie

    11:03 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    then I should kick some booty once I am indexed...I have over 300 quality inbound links with my keywords in the anchor text...my keywords are in my title and in my content...when I add one uncompetitive word to the two major keywords, I come out number one and I have PRO...I just went online...but I think that just because I think I am playing this game wisely, I'm not gonna get near the top...just so I can keep trying to figure out how...lol..there's no way brand new me is gonna rank number one for those keywords the minute I am indexed, just because I have the right stuff in my site and links.

    Any advice on inbound links other than high PR, and anchor text KWs?

    coconutz

    11:04 am on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    >>and one of the major keywords is nowhere on their homepage, yet they come out on top under a search for that word.... I search fuzzy widgets and they only have fuzzy...

    Checked the cached page, it'll will show you the following:

    These search terms have been highlighted: fuzzy
    These terms only appear in links pointing to this page: widgets

    >>there's no way brand new me is gonna rank number one for those keywords the minute I am indexed

    It is possible....

    SlyOldDog

    4:44 pm on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    >>then I should kick some booty once I am indexed...

    Sorry to disappoint you, but it takes a while for the pagerank to flow through even after the links are indexed. Up to 3 or 4 months.

    But, be patient and follow the rules and you will succeed. Unless of course you have 10 competitors who also do the same but have been around longer.

    24bit

    5:43 pm on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    So we all know anchor text is extremely important for inbound and outbound links, but is the text in a title tag assigned to the link just as important?

    So outbound links with good anchor text scores you points even if it's a one way outbound link (not reciprocal)?

    Also, In Brett's "Building a great site in Google" thread, for every new page you create, I know that Brett recommends linking (with good anchor text) to a couple of high PR sites that are themed similar to your new page. So Google really likes that even though you're giving away PR and not receiving any? I'm a little confused.

    MeditationMan

    5:50 pm on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    Hi 24bit,

    Pagerank is only one factor. The other is relevance. A lot of people believe that linking to relevant sites helps to establish your relevance.

    Googleguy has spoken of "Pagerank hoarding", and you can understand that Google would not want to encourage popular sites to become prima donnas that are only linked to but never link back. I think it makes sense to assume that Google would reward sites that link to other relevant sites.

    BigDave

    6:56 pm on Dec 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    24bit,

    Google likes random walk links. It's how they find all the pages out there.

    I personally don't do the reciprocal link thing. Many of my links turn out to be reciprocal, but that is because the 2 sites like each other's content.

    Link to good pages that your surfers will be interested in. Keep your surfers' needs in mind and you will rarely go wrong with google.

    And if you do a good job setting up your internal linking structure, you will only be giving away a small percentage of your sites PR, and you will be making your site a much better experience for the end user.