Forum Moderators: open
Finally he figured out it was Google and turned it off. But the thing that got him was that he was about to buy a new computer because he couldn’t figured out why his computer was just getting to slow to use. He seemed really irritated, just very anger at Google. I have never heard anyone except a Webmaster person (PR0s and things like that) and especially a non-web person get so anger at Google. It really surprised me at how upset he was. I told him about how there was a button he must click to get Google Compute / Toolbar on his system; it has an agreement and everything. He said he never remembered reading anything like that. He thought that it should be VERY clear to him and Google should have done a better job at alerting him that Google was going to hijack his computer and make it run slow. He said he wrote Google to tell them about this but got only an auto-reply. (Attorneys get angry when real people don’t reply).
I told him that was normal, Google can’t answer all email it receives because after all 150 Million search get preformed each day and who knows how many emails they must receive daily. (I recall Google receives 500 resumes a day) I commented that he would never hear from them (knowing how many webmaster never do). The guy mentioned that he had the mind to sue Google over the Compute feature. (As long as my family has known him, he has never been sue happy type of attorney.) As he started arguing the merits of his case to me and I tried to play devil advocate, but I could still see his point. Little grandmas and non-computer people should be explicitly warned about the Google Compute feature and type something like “I agree” before Google compute can be activated. All people should be warned. (Brings back memories for me, I remember the days when I had to edit the registry just to turn the feature on) Yeah, I can see the logic of warning people more explicitly. I told him I would share his experience in a place where I know Google employees read, so here it is.
I just wonder how many people out there are actually are having problems with slowness but can’t figure out the cause. I recall when I was experimenting with the Google Compute feature that I determined it was not worth running. I ran it for a few weeks way before the option became available to normal users, but the problems I encountered were general slowness as well. I finally just turned off the feature and didn’t give it a second thought until months later (tonight). So on a whim tonight I played with the compute function just to see how it was doing. It looks like there is a new feature in there; “Standard mode and Conversation mode”, Standard mode runs all the time. Conversation mode runs only when you are idle. I recall that conversation mode used to be default (back when there was no modes). It would only use your computer if you weren’t, but all that has changed. I just wonder how many webmasters actually use this compute feature.
Edit reason: grammer
[edited by: Lisa at 9:28 am (utc) on Dec. 16, 2002]
Makes you think about how much stuff we do to our sites that we take for granted (perhaps, a link to our terms and conditions instead of taking people to it naturally as part of a signup process) that regular users find confusing, or just see from a different perspective.
Adovcates the need for non-techy consumer testing! :)
JOAT
I believe that folks over 55 have a hard time with many web conventions that more web-saavy folks take for granted. Like the famous anecdote of the senior citizen who didn't realize that a "submit" button really meant "send," as in "send the mail." Something they could relate to.
I downloaded the toolbar, explored the options, checked and unchecked the features that I wanted, then moved along. Something your friend did not do.
My theory is that folks over 55 are used to things being up front, without needing to be tweaked or "personalized."
Think about it: Growing up, what did they ever have that needed personalization? You plug it in and toast your bread. You turn the key and drive away. You pull the trigger and shoot a duck.
It's my contention that your friends experience is not founded on a lack of intelligence (obviously), but rather a generational/experience gap.
What can Google do to accomdate this? Perhaps solicit more input during installation? I'm not sure...
I'll just about bet that's the problem at least one of my guys is having with his machine.. and quite possibly another one as well. in fact I'll more than bet. I'll guarantee that explains one of them.
If that is the case, then it's not generational - One is 28, the other is 39, both consultants with honors degrees, and semi-advanced users... but not techies by any stretch.
Honestly I think a lot of the problem comes down to people having short memories. They might tick something one week and completely forget they signed up for it the next... especialy if it has a negative impact: "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything"
I think what is needed is a front and center toolbar indicator that shows CLEARLY WITH TEXT, NOT AN ICON, when Google Compute is active.
It still won't stop user amnesia, but it's gotta help.
I work on a tech help desk for an ISP. The signup/instalation process to join us as your ISP is done through a CD.. a very simple thing to do one would think ;)
I wont even begin to tell you the problems that people have, it needs a whole new forum :)
Craig
I have to keep reminding myself that what I experience here is worlds away from what is happening in Kansas or Kentucky.
My barmates talk about their linux boxes, about their web sites being banned by credit card processors, and being kidnapped in Kyrgistan and held hostage (that's Friday night's conversation).
It's a world away out here...
Could it be that the "plug it in and toast your bread mentality" is still the reality out there?
In that case, is it a cultural gap?
ditto the linux boxes and card processors things. Seattle is very tech place if you are talking to the right person. (no kidnapping talk though)
Most people I talk with in the real world have no clue what I do let alone understand general concepts like what a domain is. I hear questions like, "what is a domain". sheesh, I need to remind myself that people exist in the real world that don't even have an email address. (How backwards is that?)
Anyway, this person that I am talking about can actually follow me when I talk. And to his credit he is a TECH attorney, so he understand computers and the such. But there is a whole world out there that doesn't understand this Internet Stuff. (Sometimes I just have to say I work with computers so they know what I do! Because they don't even use a computer let alone surf, browse and email). When companies become omnipresent they need to start rethinking how people think about them. Their user base goes from highly technical to normal people.
For example, Microsoft's biggest mistake was not lobbying earlier. They thought they were just a software company outside politics. Surprise, surprise, they were actually becoming a huge monopoly and politics goes along with that. Governing organizations want to start to writing policies to govern you. And unless you play politics well, the politics and other lobbing groups will have their way over your company. So now you see Microsoft donating two both parties. They are getting the hold of their situation finally.
I am a bit perplexed though, because we did a lot of testing to make sure that Google Compute would only run during idle times and never slow a computer down when someone was using it. I'll pass that feedback on as well. Thanks for the post.
>In that case, is it a cultural gap?
I definitely think so, probably with some other factors (grudgingly, age) mixed into the algo. Many of us 50+ types go back 30 years or so being somewhere or somewhat around these machines. From the dark ages of flags and tags, input by teletype and punchcards, don't forget punchcards. Being absolutely awed by a new printer that spit out 120 lines per minutes as opposed to 120 groups per minute (classified "Secret" at the time). Or burning out three proto-pc machines in one night, a dubious distinction when they went for $100K each. And e-mail? How about Morse code? (Dah-dah-di-dah ditty-dit di-dit dah-dah di-dit dah-di-dah) It's like that old song you can't forget!
And I also think its the explosion in different technologies over the past few years. Nobody can claim to be an expert in every facet and nothing works the same. If nothing else a toaster is (usually) a toaster, no matter what brand is on the front.
And there is a certain amount of resistance to change. When I sit down at the XP machine across the room I'm at a total loss of where to find something or where to start. And I'm still most comfortable with 'normal view' in MS Word.
It's a mix of stuff. Only really replied at this length because it's the second post today about us gray hairs. Hmmm?
Jim
....<in an old mans voice>"i dont want a neural interface - give me a good old fashioned mouse anyday...and wheres that little paper clip guy....oooh i miss him..."</end mockery>
JOAT :)
Lisa
PS: He did say he loves your search service though.
I remember when the google compute came out and I did not like it, and still do not (I do not like the way it was promoted). But I have just looked for the option in the toolbar and cannot find it anywhere.
I did say no I did not want it when we were forced to go to Google to decide, but is there nowhere to go and check that it is off or even to turn it on if we change our minds?
I always try and slip into those conversations when I have opportunity. We can learn more by the untainted views of the everyday/new user than by most of the techniques we use.
It is always very eye opening when talking to new cpu users or the SE inexperienced. My neighbours just got their first cpu and I have been teaching them to use it as well as how to search for things on the web.
Very interesting seeing google serp's through their eyes, what they type in, what jumps out at them, their complaints and praises.
I probably learned more from them than they did from me even though they think it is the other way around.
EDIT IN :
Now this is really weird - I was just copying and pasting the below from my toolbar options when I noticed that below it mentions Google compute so I thought Duh and went back to options (for the fith time) but no it is still not there, I even did a find on that page for compute but no results came back, so I can only assume it is invisible text! SUrely it would be wise for google to make this visible and to give users the option of changing their minds and opting in and out.
Page information
Page Info menu
Voting buttons
Navigation
Up button
Finding words within a page
Highlight button
Word-find buttons, generated from search terms
Google Compute is ENABLED Google Compute is DISABLED
Google Compute Client
Experimental Features
For the adventurous Toolbar user, a number of experimental features are also available.
Default layout
Reset the button layout to the default button set, either with or without advanced features. Please be advised that enabling advanced features has privacy implications.
Sorry I have to laugh because that is very strange, previously I looked at the options five times carefully studying it, and nothing was there about compute, now however, there is! The only thing I did was disconnet and reconnect!
jatar_k - I could not agree more, when designing websites I always get two people to look at the website, my Mum and Dad!
My Mum knows enough about computers to know what a link is and where and what to do so I use her for the average user, my Dad though tries and clicks on things he shouldn't and gets all frustrated if he feels the navigation is not what he thinks it should be. I would class him as below average in computer experience.
I find it invaluable learning from them both especially my Dad as he gives me a whole new perspective on the sites which hopefully add up to a better user experience for all.
I can confirm the exact same problem you are seeing, complete with the "invisible text" where the Google Compute option checkboxes should be (It does show up in view-page-source). I'm running version 1.1.66, although the option was missing in previous versions as well.
I assume this is either an upgrade problem, or possibly due to the fact that I have been running SETI@HOME since before the toolbar option was available, and I may be running afoul of a "conflict detector."
Anybody else? If so, let's start a new thread on this technical issue, rather than hijacking Lisa's "informed consent" thread.
Jim
"pretty dang sure" = A Google Compute/toolbar person wrote me an email to say exactly this. :)
Ain't an age thing.
Keep it simple works.
Phraseology(¿spelling) changes.
Keep it in the real world where it belongs, is (one of) my mottos.
I got my first computer at 62 and taught myself to program in three languages as well as building several websites. I am almost 67 now and still going strong...Fact, I'm thinking of taking up SEO as a sideline (ducking and running!) don't throw heavy things at me, you might get a hernia....:)
Ann
