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PR0 - It Could Be Changed...

What causes it?

3:52 pm on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

We just put up a new site <snip> and submitted it to Google from 3 to 4 weeks ago. Prior to last week the PR bar was greyed out. I guess because it takes time for this info to be registered. Then, for the last week the PR has been 0 (white bar).

I have read horror stories about the dreaded PR0 and how it is almost impossible to change it once Google punishes you with it. Since we did not use any Spamming techniques of any sort, could it be that it takes time for the PageRank to increase? or does this mean that now we are stuck for a long time in white bar never-never land?

If it means that we are screwed, it is silly that Google has attained such Godly power to do what they please with the sites in their database.

Any suggestions?



[edited by: Marcia at 3:58 pm (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]
[edit reason] no URLs, please [/edit]

9:44 am on Dec 14, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Dan!
Are you sure the site has already been indexed in Google after only 3 to 4 weeks? Try this
allinurl:www.yoursite.com site:www.yoursite.com
and see if and how pany pages Google has of your site. THEN start to worry about the PR0!
Put the URL in your profile and people here can take a look and see if they find some obvious problems. Good luck!
9:56 am on Dec 14, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Susanne,

I have the same problem as danger66, only I never submitted the website to Google, or any other search engine for that matter. Using your trick above, I got just 1 page from the website listed. Forgive my ignorance, but is that good or bad?

Thank you

[edited by: Marcia at 10:14 am (utc) on Dec. 14, 2002]
[edit reason] url removed [/edit]

5:15 pm on Dec 14, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Susanne,

I put my URL in my profile, but when I pull up my profile it does not show up. I am not sure if this website allows the display of any URLs, even in your profile.

I checked www.google.com, www2.google.com, and www3.google.com and used allinurl:www.mysite.com. Only two pages come up (not the home page). When I type just www.mysite.com, then the home page comes up. When I type site:www.mysite.com followed by a relevant search keyword to my site, most of my pages come up.

My home page still has a PR0. It has been slighly over a month now that I submited my site. I though that maybe a website initially starts with a PR0 when it is first indexed and then Google starts increasing it. But now I read some posts that say that ONCE you get a PR0 from Google you are stuck. To me that sounds like the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard, especially if the website is not really spamming. At this point, I don't know what to do to verify what is really going on.

I will appreciate any help that you and any other members of this forum can give me.



5:32 pm on Dec 14, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ciml is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Hello Dan. Profile URLs don't show for new members, we try to discuss the issues here to keep threads of benefit to everyone.

To see your PageRank in the Toolbar, you should expect to wait two full Google updates since you received links from pages with PR.

Most pages with PR0 do not have a penalty, they just have less than PR1 based on the links found by Google in the preceeding crawl.

9:17 am on Dec 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Good, you have at least one page in. :) That means Google has found you. How old is the site? Maybe Google's spiders aren't able to handle the navigation? Are you using javascript navigation? Google can't understand that. A good rule of thumb is to always have simple text links at the bottom of your pages to all pages in the site, in addition to whatever navigation you have. Or, create a site map which contains links to all your pages. Put a text link to the site map on your main page and Google will find it and follow all the links.

Don't worry for now. Ciml is right, it takes a while before a site is in properly and Google has decided on the page rank. But don't become obsessed with pagerank. Put priority on creating a site with lots of content and excellent value for your visitors. Then work on incoming links from similar sites. Cheers!

12:33 pm on Dec 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Susanne:

While you're on page navigation within a site I have a question. It may be obvious but here goes; I have links to every page on my site at the bottom of every page but they aren't text links, rather small gif images with the link imbedded. I've been indexed for only a month but should I redo the links so that they are text only.



1:20 pm on Dec 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Ken!
Do you mean the links are image maps or just links on gifs?
If they are just normal image links, then as far as I know search engines are able to follow such links.
You say you have been indexed for a month, are all your pages indexed? In that case I suppose Google has been able to follow the links. If all your pages are in Google's index, then you have nothing to worry about. Cheers!
8:58 am on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member


First, thanks very much for your reply. I'm also new to this board and my questions have probably been answered somewhere but finding them has taken some time. I really don't know how many of my pages have been indexed because the only method I know of to look is to use "related pages" in the google search but it shows none listed. All of them are ranked so I'm assuming that means they have been indexed?

Yes they are individual image gifs, all fifteen of them at the bottom of each page. Another thing I've noticed while looking for inward links with google; it doesn't seem to be working as I've looked up not only my sites but some within my industry that have been around for 3-4 years and it doesn't show all of them but just a handful? I'm using links:mysite.com. Any ideas on how to find the actual amount and who they are?


9:27 am on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Hardwood Guy

Your image links are visible to spiders, but I have two suggestions:

1 Put alt tags on the images so you get some keyword value out of them for the spiders, as well as helping user navigation.

2 Repeat your navigation with plain text links at the bottom of the page. I'm surfing with images turned off tonight as my dialup is a bit slow... I've already bypassed two sites because they didn't have visible navigation.

9:36 am on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

Hardwood Guy

If you want to know what bots have visited you, and where they went, then I recommend buying buying a stat analyzer. Or, you can switch to a web host that has a control panel with the option for viewing the latest visitors. Then you will see the bots coming to your site, sniffing for your robots.txt and indexing your various directories.

10:01 am on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Ken, you're most welcome. :)

Deejay and Martinibuster have some really good tips!

Use this in Google's search box to find out how many and which pages they've indexed:
allinurl:www.yoursite.com site:www.yoursite.com

And about incoming links: Google doesn't show you all the links. Don't ask me why! Usually when I try to find every single site that has links to me I simply search using the company name. I also use www.mysite.com and only mysite to find it all. Not all incoming links count in Google, only quality links from quality sites that are similar to your site.

Plus, dont use links:www.yoursite.com! Use link:www.yoursite.com without the "s". Cheers!

1:31 pm on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hey Folks:

Thanks for the imput! I have a server that is supposed to have stats but they've been down off and on for almost one month now. As a matter of fact I'm told not to complain anymore on their own message board or they'll shut my sites down. Real nice eh? They claim it takes time to find another stat program...but one month? I haven't been able to view them since last Monday. Yea, I'm gonna go for another program to get them.


"I'm surfing with images turned off tonight" I've seen that mentioned but in all honesty who knows how to do that, or what percentage actually does it? I don't even know how? Thanks for your suggestions but I do have the page link phrases repeated with a small description on the home page so folks know where to go. Hard to explain w/o actually seeing the site.


gif image with phrase "Where To Find Widgets" on the left side of page. More to the middle it goes like this. How To Find Widgets- Locate widgets locally or online.

Thanks Again All:)

2:18 pm on Dec 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

To return to the PR0 topic, my client has a site that is well listed in Yahoo and ODP, and has been for over a year.
It recently (2 months ago) went from PR5 to PR0.
It still has links in ODP and Yahoo, so I'm sure it is not a result of having not enough links. There are also several PR4 to PR6 sites that link to it.

We do not use any spam techniques at all. Just an optimized page. My theory is that there may be some bad neighbourhood sites linking to it.

Any suggestions as to what the PR0 is from and what I can do?

2:42 pm on Dec 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

my site has been up for almost 3 years now, indexed by Google, have a site map link on index page and it's mostly HTML. However, when I do "allinurl:www.yoursite.com" I only see 2 pages...

Does this mean that after all this time I only have 2 pages indexed? If so, can anyone advice on how to improve that?

The site map trick has been in place for several years (PR5).

3:27 pm on Dec 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Don't worry about bad neighbourhoods linking to a site. It will only hurt if the site itself links to such no-nos. Imagine how easy it would be to kill the competition if all you had to do was to set up a "bad site" and start linking to the competitors! ;) Make sure to check where the site in question links to. It's very hard to guess why a site has gone from 5 to 0 without actually having seen the site. Maybe the optimisation is over the top?

Did you do a allinurl:www.yoursite.com
or did you do a
allinurl:www.yoursite.com site:www.yoursite.com?
Maybe you just typed it wrong? However, if you try again and only get 2 pages, then I'm afraid all you've got in Google's index is 2 pages.
Is your site map linked by a normal text link from the main page? You said most of the links in the site map are html. You mean plain, static text links? What about the other links?

11:33 pm on Dec 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Got it Susanne. I did the first one. When I tried the second one I got 5 pages of links...phew.

Some URLs had yesterday's date. Does this mean they have just been spidered? And why not the others?

8:24 am on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Yes, I think Google has just had a sniff at those pages to check whether there was any new content. I don't really know why not all pages have a date. I suppose Google can't be checking every single page when it comes for a visit. Google's spiders are some really busy critters!
It's the same with my sites. Usually it's the home page that has a fresh date, but not always.
6:47 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Suzanne,

I did the allinurl:www.yoursite.com site:www.yoursite.com search and found several of my pages (which I have since re-named), almost 20. I also have the white page rank bar.

I have noticed from the logs that Googlebot is still visiting every two or three days. Is it only a matter of time or do I need to do something to recreate those old pages and network them into the site as it now stands?

6:40 am on Dec 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member


I have had this problem and it finally cleared yesterday. Actually, my website was new and got slammed with a PR0 for no obvious reason. I did some searches on it in Google and saw that Google listed the same pages for the website under www.domain.com, www.domain.org, and www.domain.net. We have all three TLDs for our website, and they are all being pointed through DNS to the same website. I never figured that could be a problem, but after reading through other postings around here, I saw many suggestions that no 2 domains or pages should points to the same content, which was my case. I went to Google and requested that the .net and .org be removed from their listings. Yesterday I got a confirmation, and the same day the PR bar for the website greyed out instead of being PR0. I do not know if it is a coincidence or not, but you may want to check it out.

9:34 am on Dec 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Darth,
Google will eventually remove the old pages from its index and replace them with the new ones. Just give it some time. You only changed the file names, right? Navigation is still the same?

joeuz, very good tip! But I am surprised that all three domains managed to get into Googles cache. I have a site with one primary domain and at leat ten other domains pointing to it (to protect the company name). Of course, the other domains don't have any pages. But maybe, if somebody puts a link to one of the "pageless" domains it might get indexed in Google? Worth keeping an eye on!

1:27 pm on Dec 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member


Maybe it makes sense to setup robots.txt on the redirecting domains? This will ensure they are not listed in Google.

1:52 pm on Dec 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Well, you can't setup a robots.txt on a server that does not exist!

If I have understood things correctly, joeuz said "they are all being pointed through DNS to the same website". There is ONE website with a domain name and some pages, hosted on a server. And then there's a bunch of other domain names pointing to that single website. So the only place where these are any pages, where a site i hosted, is the primary website with the primary domain name.
Maybe some of the more techie guys in the forum should throw in some wisdom here. I feel I'm beginning to confuse myself. :) I'd really like to understand why the site in question was indexed three times in Google if there were pages under only one of the domain names.
Actually, maybe it would be good to start another thread as we have strayed off the topic already.


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