Banned from Google ... any ideas how to resolve?

[photoads]

Hi and help!

I foolishly answered an email from a S.E.O company called <snip> who offered to get me more traffic through building links. It worked by putting loads of hidden links on your page linking to other sites.

I registered 4 of my sites with this company and now have paid the ultimate penalty - BANNED FROM GOOGLE. I actually realised this was bad news and had removed the code from my page just before google banned my sites and those of 300+ others.

Whats more the person behind it is refusing to ignore any emails - mine and others.

The bar is gray with curent page is not ranked by google - so I guess I am banned. Is there any point emailing Google saying I realise my mistake, won't do it again etc? Also is there any chance that the site may get relisted? Or is it time for a new domain name?

Any help greatly appreciated

Iain

[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 8:01 pm (utc) on Nov. 25, 2002]
[edit reason] no specifics please [/edit]

[WebGuerrilla]

Hi photoads,

Welcome to WebmasterWorld.

I'm afraid there isn't a whole lot you can do. The best approach would be to clean everything up, and then wait it out. If the penalty isn't lifted in 6 months, and you get most of your traffic from Google, then you might want to begin the process of starting fresh with a new domain.

[photoads]

Hi WebGuerrilla

Thanks for the reply - grim news then! I really am gutted about this - should I not just pull in another domain name I have to replace the banned domain name? 6 months is a long time.

Iain

[rfgdxm1]

You have received the Google Death Penalty. Google is merciless. Usually best with a GDP to toss the domain in the bit bucket and start over.

[trueMarketing]

Sorry to hear your story Photoads. Our company did this months ago and cleaned up the problem just after getting the death grip from Google.

Just now are we starting to rebound a little from the punishment. It's been nearly four months of hard work for that small group of websites to pull them back out of the abyss a little.

From what I have heard, maybe GoogleGuy or someone with a deeper understanding can confirm - once you are flagged for problems like you mention, you have approximately a 4-6 month waiting period, whereas you may be able to "rank" again or at least not receive the grey bar altogether.

If it was me, and I had it to do over again, I would've dropped the older sites altogether and started over. Unless you have a brand which doesn't allow you to do so as easily.

Good luck to you
TM

[Lots0]

Another option is to use your robots.txt or .htaccess to ban googlebot for 2 to3 months from your site then after that allow googlebot back, this has been known to work in the past (I have used it before and it worked fine for automatic penalties)

If you want a quick fix - get a new domain name and a new host(or just a new IP block) then put your content on the new domain. As with most quick fixes this has some major draw backs - like you lose all your link pop.

Don’t ya just love Google...

[photoads]

Thanks for your replies! I have certainly learn't the hard way.

TrueMarketing I could easily switch to another domain name, would it be ok to point a new name to the same site that I have just got banned and just rebrand? So would it be the domain name and the IP address thats banned or just the domain?

Also what really sickens me is that the person who proports to being a S.E.O ignores my emails and says we knew the risks! I ended up asking him why he was avoiding everyone on a similar site to this and I got banned for a month! I guess I'm on a downward spiral worked hard to create a good free used car site and bang nothing. I cannot even name the company here so others can join in if effected.

Thanks

Iain

[Lots0]

I think those of us that have been around for awhile probably know what SEO company you are talking about. (new here but I been around awhile ;)

Personally I would blame Google - Not the SEO - Google is the one that chooses to ban sites for reasons that Google does not disclose (except for VERY general do’s and Don’ts) then Google gives no way to get the site back in its index once it has complied with the Google rules. But often times its very difficult to just figure out what you have done that ticked google off.

[rogerd]

If you can switch domain names, just do it. The people who have difficult decisions are the ones with big investments in literature, hundreds of (real!) links, etc. Getting a penalty completely cleared up seems to range from time-consuming to impossible. Go with the new domain and don't look back. (And check here for advice before implementing anything dicey! You may get varied opinions on any given approach, but at least you'll have a general idea of the risks.)

[rogerd]

Lots0, while I do fault Google for not providing a better help policy and reinstatement mechanism, it sounds to me like the SEO failed to apprise his client of the risks involved. Certainly, any SEO worth his/her fee would have a clue that hiding hundreds of links on someone's site would have to be considered highly risky and certainly penalty-inducing if discovered. I realize we are hearing one version of the story, but I wouldn't recommend that any SEO do something like that without some kind of release document identifying the risks and absolving me of all fault if the worst happened.

[Beachboy]

Yes, Google is merciless when it comes to crosslinking like that. If time is of the essence where getting a site positioned in Google is concerned, put the content on a new domain and try again. And listen to all the good people who hang out here at WW about how to get ranked. Those new to these fora, who are thinking about hiring an SEO firm where linking services are offered, should ask specific questions about how linking is handled. Getting banned is no fun at all -- and is unbelievably expensive.

[photoads]

In a way I guess I am to blame the price was very reasonable and I fell for the sales spin. Also once listed on hundreds of other sites, despite removing the links I was then associated with this company and when google closed the door I was there too.

Would it be okay to have my new domain pointing to the banned domain so that all the established links would still remain?

Iain

[Rugles]

I would not blame Google for this problem.

If you are trying to trick Google in to giving a higher page rank for your site and you get caught, why blame Google.

Clean sites with lots of good content are the way to go. All the spammy sites I have built rank high in all the other engines, except google.

They are just trying to deliver spam free results.

[Rugles]

I wouldn't point your new domain to the old one. Too much risk.

[Lots0]

I could be wrong (its happened before) - but if this is the SEO I am thinking it is there is a very prominent disclosure as to the risks involved. If it is another SEO I am not familiar with and there is no disclosure as to the risks involved in this type of ‘promotion’ then I think that the SEO in question should be taken out and publicly horse whipped.

[makemetop]

>probably know what SEO company you are talking about..

I don't - and I've been around a while!

I thought an SEO company was a company who worked on producing/optimising websites that would rank high on search engines. One that talks about creating hidden links is surely a Link Farmer - or maybe I'm being naive!

Anyway, back to the point - I suppose you get what you pay for. As in all purchases - caveat emptor!

As for pointing your other domain - if you are grey barred and the other domain is registered to you and/or it is on the same IP and/or it is on the same C block and/or you want to gain your illicit link benefits for this domain, I'd forget it and start again (as far as Google is concerned).

[jimbeetle]

>The bar is gray with curent page is not ranked by google

Photoads,

Before you do anything desperate be absolutley sure that the site is actually banned or has a penalty.

There has been a lot of back and forth on whether the gray bar or the all white PR0 bar shows a penalty. I think -- and others will differ -- that the dreaded white bar is the penalty and that the gray bar simply means that Google doesn't yet have enough to assign a PR to a page -- directory listing, links ,etc.

What's the consensus out there? Gray bar or white bar?

And if gray bar does just mean not yet ranked then wait for the next update while you try to build some good links, etc.

Jim

[Beachboy]

I think the gray bar can indicate a more severe penalty. PR0 means Google is taking away any advantage you might have in the index. Gray toolbar can mean they don't want you in the index at all, forever. To use an American school analogy, it's the difference between suspension and expulsion. ;)

[rogerd]

Normally, waiting a month or two & seeing if the problem clears up might be advisable. It might be a glitch rather than a penalty. But since Photoads has indicated that he doesn't have that much invested in the old domain, I'd start working on the new domain right now. The apparent link farm installation isn't proof of a penalty, but that combined with the abrupt removal from the index certainly raises that possibility.

[photoads]

Lotso

The company is a one man band from the uk. The service was supposed to be automated, so you added a piece of php code that was updated each time someone visited your site.Those not able to run php were to paste the code onto their page.

This then created a huge list of sites on 1x1 pixel images, there was no screening of sites some real dross, and some that I did not want to be associated with. I questioned the service and was reassured it was OK and he was working on some changes!

I tried to have him "publicly horse whipped" but like all crooks they are protected by the law (moderators) when they claim you are making slanderous remarks against them.

Its really interesting how this has escalated and I appreciate all your comments - a real community feel! I may try calling the UK office or am I wasting my time?

Seems like a ban as the other domains that used the service are also of the same status.

Thanks

Iain

[WriterGirl]

What about reporting this sham company to the Better Business Bureau and then writing the SEO and telling them you will be contacting various technology news organizations about your experience and the fact that this company never wrote back to you? Then maybe you'll hear from them. Just a thought...

[photoads]

WriterGirl
Nice one - will give it a try!

Thanks

Iain

[sleet]

Hi & help also!

Have been 'lurking' here for a while now - mostly due to the problems in this thread and one of our clients. Client with a relatively new (6 months) site that was giving very good SERPS for major keywords disappeared earlier this month. Don't know what the PR was, since I didn't have the dreaded Google toolbar (shame on me!). I now have the toolbar and it is grey for this client.

Site's disappearance earlier this month (around 9th November) coincided more or less with adding a new product range and a re-vamped front page and re-organised dbase and asp pages to accommodate new range. Freshbot been visiting regularly. However, when searching for domain on Google (which is companyname.com) the site itself apparently does not exist, although search brings a listing of all the links pointing to the domain. Googles cached snapshot (according to toolbar) are the old pages.

After reading avidly here for the past fortnight, I was of the opinion that this was not a penalty, more a glitsch. HOWEVER a couple of days ago client received an email from a disgruntled guy who, apparently, had signed up with an 'automated link' programme (then thought better of it when he saw the code he was supposed to put on his index page) and was writing to everyone whose url appeared in the code to warn them that using this programme resulted in a ban from Google, and the company in question refused to answer his emails or take any responsibility. In fact in the 'propoganda' on this site, they openly mention achieving a higher ranking in Google! They also say that they have a different network of sites for Adult Material and that an Adult-related website will not be linked to or be linking to "mainstream" sites. However the code that was sent by above disgruntled guy contained the urls and descriptions of some very dubious sites!

Now the crux of this is - my client never signed up for this service (or at least denies vehemently that he did) and he certainly never asked us to insert any code (which he would have done quite innocently if he had spent the money) - and if he had, we would have pointed out the error of his ways and refused to insert the code!

So - how did client's url get into the code? Is it possible a competitor signed him up to get him banned from Google?

AND more to the point - what to do now? All input/comments gratefully received

[glengara]

Sleet, have you tried sites that show old web pages to see if your client had done any silly DIY stuff?

[sleet]

Glengara, not possible for client to have done any DIY:
a) he's not capable
b) he does not have access!

Thanks anyway.

[ann]

Sleet,

You might want to use the Way Back Machine to view older versions and check the source for that site.

Ann

[Rugles]

Was the code in question inserted by the Host?

Who does the actual publishing for the website, that person my be responsible.

[shady]

Incidentally, I had a PR5 site which was serving no purpose, so I changed it to be a single page of affiliate links.

During the last dance, it was dropped and changed to a grey bar.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the page, in respect to dodgy link farming, hidden text etc... so I can see no reason why google would ban it.

I am waiting 'til next month to see if it is truly banned and suggest you do the same if yours has only changed to grey during the last build.

Personally, I would immediately setup the new domain with a few pages (not clones of the original site) and create a few incoming links from somewhere other than your potentially banned domain.

If you find your current site IS banned, you can copy over the pages to the new site and ban google from your old site with htaccess. As the pages linking to this site will have been picked up during this dance, you will be 1 month ahead.

If you find your current site is NOT banned, simply continue with the original site.

IMO :)

[rogerd]

Hi, Sleet, if I'm understanding you correctly the person that contacted you about the shady SEO scheme found your client's URL in the code inserted on his site - your client's site doesn't actually have any farm-type links on it, but you are wondering how his URL got into the other guy's pages. Assuming I have this right:

Usually, link farms operate such that you have to put the pages on your site in order to get linked by others. Hence, Ann's suggestion to check old cached versions of the site is a good one - it could be some SEO-type "helped" the site in the past. I'd also be sure to do a thorough search of the site as it exist now (if you haven't blown everything away at least once). When working with large, old sites it's easy to get old content pages that aren't part of your navigation structure but are still linked from an individual page, or that are orphaned but not deleted.

If there's no trace, past or present, of the site's participation in this link farm, it is still possible that somebody stuck your client's URL into it. Theoretically, that alone shouldn't be cause for alarm, since the general thinking is that a bad inbound link alone can't hurt you. I'd still be a bit wary, though, particularly if the site isn't well linked from "good" sites.

If this link farm business is still in operation, you could ask them how your client got in the list, and, of course, to remove it. Of course, it the link farm operator is the perpetrator, you probably won't get a useful answer.

[MeditationMan]

If this guy is in the UK, and if there was no warning that what you were doing could have adverse effects, then you might have a case under the Trades Descriptions Act.

But frankly, I think you knew that what you were doing was dodgy, and it may not be a good idea to try to shift the responsibility to someone else. Then again, the benefit of legal action would be that it would stop some other people for falling for the same line.