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best position for a keyword with 1,000,000 results

how to get it

         

HuhuFruFru

12:48 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hi everyone! in the last 2 months I have read a lot about optimizing websites for google. but I still don't understand google.

let's say I have 50 links from pr7-sites, so I have a pr6 now.
if I would search for my top keyword I am not first but on #200, and the one on first position has a pr4.
of course I know that pr is not everything, so I started to optimize the content: keyword in title, description, H1,10 times in the rest of the text, keyword in the alt tags, keyword in the name of the jpg-files, keyword in the css.-file. then I got #70. so I have experimented a lof with google.

but there are still sites in top 10 positions which have absoultely NOTHING! pr3, one keyword in title, one in h1 and that's it. how is that possible?

Shakil

12:54 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)



is the anchor text in link > the same as your chosen keyword, or is is your website/company name.

Shak

lazerzubb

12:56 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I would suggest that you start off reading Successful Site in 12 Months with Google Alone [webmasterworld.com]

If you follow all those steps you shouldn't have a problem getting top 10 for a keyword which returns 1 million results.

Second, to understand how Google ranks it's results i suggest reading Brett's quick rank (good) [webmasterworld.com]

It gives you quite a good idea of what Google uses when they rank there results, even though they have more than 100 variables that they use to rank a page.

And as Shak says a lot of focus is put on The anchor text [webmasterworld.com]

zeus

1:00 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have a few keywords where I rank 1-3 on the first page out of 2-3 mill. pages.

Here is the point have many good pages, with that I mean with pictures and content and always see your whole site as on big page (theme) thats the key.

zeus

HuhuFruFru

1:28 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



thank you everyone!
glengara: thank you for your offer, but at the moment i don't want to publizise my site.
shakil: can you explain in brief the anchor text thing, I didn't get it......

and lazerbubb: "Brett's quick rank" is really interesting and I have done all that, but what about the sites which have only 2 or 3 things of the criteria? there are soooooo many sites in google which come out in top10 when you look for a keyword and wouldn't qualify in my opinion to be there. with a pr3 or p4, some keywords in title and h1 - how is it possible that they are in top10 of 1,000,000 while others with higher pagerank and "optimized sites" are between 20-1000.

in "Brett's quick rank" there are some criteria mentioned - but there MUST be some more!

Shakil

1:36 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)



I think I will let Lazerzubb answer the Anchor text theory in detail, as he knows a lot more than I do on this topic.

All I know is that it WORKS.

Shak

djgreg

1:44 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The anchor text theory, as far as I know:
But the keyword or keywords on which you want to rank very high in your anchortext and get links. That's it.
It could be like this: <a href="http://www.yoursite.com">KEYWORDS</a>
This should push your ranking at Google very much for the keyword in the anchor text, but only for this keyword.

greg

lazerzubb

2:08 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



HuhuFruFru

I think this explains how to use anchor text in google and how much it means [webmasterworld.com]

But in short, anchor text is the text in the <A>HERE</A>, the HERE part should be replaced by either company name or keyword that you are targetting.

When you use Allinanchor: on google you will see how different pages rank only due to this, so if your site appears higher than the normal rank is, you have the abillity to get a higher ranking.

Also don't focus to much on the PageRank value you see on the toolbar, it's not always the correct one.
And you might have a low PageRank, but if the inbound links is valuable enough (in the perspective of the PageRank formula), and have good anchor text in them you can easily get a better ranking that someone who has a higher PageRank than you even though the inbound links doesn't mention the keyword you are targetting in the anchor text.

HuhuFruFru

6:51 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



thank you lazerzubb, I appreciate that.

Beachboy

7:36 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



If you had 50 inbound links from PR7 pages, all of which contained your primary kw phrase in the link anchor text, you would probably be #1 for that phrase even if your site is badly optimized. Google is a two-part problem, and the least important part is on-page optimization.

HuhuFruFru

7:44 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



and what would happen if I had 50 links from PR7 pages with 50 different phrases in the link anchor text and none of them with my main keyword?

agerhart

7:45 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>>>>Google is a two-part problem, and the least important part is on-page optimization.

I don't entirely agree with that. While external links are a large factor, on-page optimization still plays a large role.

djgreg

8:45 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



HUHUFRUFRU:
<<and what would happen if I had 50 links from PR7 pages <<with 50 different phrases in the link anchor text and <<none of them with my main keyword?

This is not the very best situation to get high rankings for a special phrase. Maybe you ask the webamsters of the other sites whether they change the linktext?

dauction

9:43 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have just totally redone my site and just noticed something reading bretts "
Successful Site in 12 Months"
that may /may not cause me problems

I have an alphebetical bar,"A,B,C,D etc....each letter on the bar directs to a page for that letter "A" for example page "A" dosent really carry any prouducts but is simply a directory page for all the products starting with "A" ..so thats 3 deep.. is that a problem with the engines..certainly not is it?

main.index/Adirectorypage/Aproductpage

Marcia

9:58 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>stick the site in your profile

Actually, we avoid individual site reviews for a number of reasons (it's in the charter). Discussing principles always helps a lot of people and opens up to fresh ideas; this all takes a lot of analysis and critical thinking.

I tend to agree with agerhart:

>>>While external links are a large factor, on-page optimization still plays a large role.

It might depend on how competitive searches are, but there's still a balance between Page Rank, number of inbound links, keywords in links both external and internal to the site, and on-page optimization. That balance can change at any time, and some are even gearing up in anticipation of increasing importance of use of themes.

HuHu, are you using keywords in link text within the site's internal navigation?

HuhuFruFru

10:17 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hi marcia!

ooh, that m i g h t be a problem, I'm mostly using images for internal links - is that bad?

but they contain in the filename and alt-tag the keywords and I have also a sitemap with all links and the keywords in the link text. and all the links have absolute addresses.... so....

europeforvisitors

10:51 pm on Nov 15, 2002 (gmt 0)



If you had 50 inbound links from PR7 pages, all of which contained your primary kw phrase in the link anchor text, you would probably be #1 for that phrase even if your site is badly optimized. Google is a two-part problem, and the least important part is on-page optimization.

Even if that's true (and I don't necessarily agree that it is), it would apply only to the page that had the 50 inbound links from PR7 pages. Your other pages would have lower PageRank than the page with all those PR7 inbound links, so they wouldn't score as high based on PageRank alone.

babyclassroom

2:00 am on Nov 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Is the keyword anchor text more important for "inbound" links or for links within your site?

pageoneresults

2:39 am on Nov 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



>I don't entirely agree with that. While external links are a large factor, on-page optimization still plays a large role.

I'll second agerhart's statement. I've seen pages with PR2/3 pull better results than those with PR6/7. Why? On page optimization had more power than those inbound links. Now, couple the optimization with the inbound/outbound links and you have a winning formula.

> Is the keyword anchor text more important for "inbound" links or for links within your site?

babyclassroom, the keyword anchor text is important for all links. You should name your links appropriately.

MeditationMan

1:40 pm on Nov 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Brett's "quick rank" speculations are very useful, although they miss out negative ranking factors:

Inbound link text: 10 points.
title: 10 points
domain name: 7 points
large h1-h2 headings: 5 points
first sentence of first paragraph 5 points
path or filename: 4 points
proximity (multi kws): 4
beginning of a sentence 1.5 points
bold or italic text: 1 points
usage in text: 1 point
title attribute: 1 point
alt tag: .5 point
meta descrip: .5 points
meta keywords: .05 point

Having outdated links is likely to generate negative points, for example. So is any kind of spamming -- eg. excessive repetition of keywords.

I'd suggest some refinements as well. For example, having your keywords near the start of a title is probably a plus.

HuhuFruFru

1:51 pm on Nov 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



i think the alt-tag is more important than 0,5 points, should be at least one point. i have a sitemap on my index.html divided into 20 images, each of them containing different keywords for my website, and they often show up in the results with good positions...