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The sites are not actually very nice, but for some major search terms these sites sit in 5 or 6 of the top 10 rankings. I have been informed by a big operator that the owner of these sites is the No.1 agent for this market. We are all in a "travel related" field, where there are operators and agents. This one is a pure online agent and we don't like the fact that there are so many similar sites.
So, is this spam? Is it unethical? Is it just good business? Should we report these sites to Google? Or are we just jealous and wish that we had so many sites?
Or should I just shut up and get on with improving our site and making a new one?!
OTOH, if I walked into three different storefronts in a row and found that once I walked through the door I was in the same store every time, you can be sure I'd be complaining to the managers of the mall.
LOL! That's a great point rogerd! I think it all boils down to choice for the user of the search engine(s).
percentages : the problem is that it is not exaclty correct analogy in your example: if you open 100 stores ain town, making store VERY close to my hosue then you can have little higher prices and people wil buy from you becasue it saves time and it is closer. web: the problem is that liek someone said that MOST people choose something from fIRST page of result so everything down is minmal.So if this company makes top 20 result filled with their services then that doesnt mean they are cheaper and better. but becasue they are "everywhere" people buy from them. this makes web resutls far less quality. i know that "you can go deeper" and find better service but in real life it is not like this . if that weould be the case the biggest companies would not be getting so many customers - everyone would look for cheaper service (example: at&t). but people jsut dont have the time to do all this compariosn.
i think google wants that people get different results from different sites so people can COMPARE and decide. if somebody stuffed top results with their producsts then this is taking quality and choice of the results.
i think google alone will not take care for this site.if you are sort of person that would use "spam report" button then i suggest you do that.
maybe looks strange since i do biz on net too and want my sites in top results but i tried to look from searchers perspective.:)
Jon
OTOH, if I walked into three different storefronts in a row and found that once I walked through the door I was in the same store every time, you can be sure I'd be complaining to the managers of the mall.
lol,that has to be one of the best "examples/parables" ever!
Well Said.
The effect is the same as spamming - there are other <PubName> pubs in <MyCounty> but they don't get a look in. I host a page for one of them (as a favour) and that's the page you see at hit 13 or so.
I think what we're looking at is a pre-search engine effort to get the most out of the web. Each of the pages is relevant to its location - the 'wedding reception' one is hosted by a site doing nothing else. Someone spent a great deal of time and money getting (paying for) listings in every conceivable place - now Google is showing us just how much effort they put in.
[edited by: ciml at 4:23 pm (utc) on Nov. 11, 2002]
[edit reason] No identifying phrases please. [/edit]
No, but how would you feel if:
a) The library changed its indexing system every week?
b) Your novel, "A Thrilling guide to Widgets" was stacked under your competitors novels, "Widgets", "Widgets revised", "Widgets re-released", etc?
I dont think we will get very far here by comparing the web to traditional business, as it is completly different.
The question is, do 15 (or however many) sites with "similar content" offer better value that justifies their domination of the SERPs?
Looking at it another way - creating similar sites on different domains is not helping the users is it? Its catering for the search engines (regardless of how sound a business move it may be).
Surely this is spam?
JOAT
OTOH, if I walked into three different storefronts in a row and found that once I walked through the door I was in the same store every time, you can be sure I'd be complaining to the managers of the mall.
dude that happens all the time... department stores have different departments. I don't get mad.
Surely this is spam?
One would think ... but based on what I've read here, it appears that you and I may be on a different page.
I have one competitor with 6 different sites all selling the same products. They don't even look all that different from one another, but they have managed to get away with it for quite some time by using different hosts, and registering their URL's under everyone elses name but their own. One site url is even registered in his dog's name for God's sake!
If you can't beat em ... join em. Keep one site squeeky clean though. When and if you get found out and penalized, you will still have that clean site to bank on. Best to do it as a reseller though and make sure to use a different company name, e:mail address and phone number.
What a world we live in when we are forced to use underhanded (spam) tactics just to keep your head above water. (No pun intended!)
Best of luck!
What a world we live in when we are forced to use underhanded (spam) tactics just to keep your head above water. (No pun intended!)
It's interesting that you chose the word "forced". Who's forcing you?
It's interesting that you chose the word "forced". Who's forcing you?
When one's (business) survival depends upon traffic to their web site ... most people will do almost anything to keep their business alive. IMHO that is being "forced" to use whatever spam tactics they must to keep their heads above water. Fighting fire with fire ... so to speak.
I don't happen to agree with one company taking the top 15 places in the SERPS and I don't believe Google does either. If they did, they wouldn't stop at two listings per URL in their result clusters. However, how is any engine supposed to suss out 15 different URL's representing the same company?
To stay in the game, you have to do the same thing and hope you can slip in at least one result in the top three spots.
As my site is already in the top 1 to 3 spots, I have not been in a position where I have had to do this (yet) ... but if the day comes that my competitors resort to such tactics, and are successful, I will likely have to do the same.
Don'ts
Be very careful about allowing an individual consultant or company to 'optimize' your web site. Chances are they will engage in some of our "Don'ts" and end up hurting your site.
Heres a translation of this. Please don't get companies who may have semi cracked our algo to optimize your site as it means we have to work more and make new algos.
Imagine if people took note of this "untitled document" would become the biggest keyword
Lol
Honestly, do whatever your heart can take, theres no fun in succeeding if you know your rear ended someone. Would you get the same buzz from getting an A grade if you cheated on the exam? Just go out there and make a great site and people will be pleased to link to you (make sure you ask them too though!)
Heck, this is actally a good marketing plan. If you and your family own 5-10 different stores in the same area selling the same thing, as long as there is enough demand to warrant paying rent etc. then this is a good way to monoplize the sales. You see this technique in 3rd world countries all the time ( I can remember being in Turkey and going into different carpet shops and leather shops and inevitably you'd find that it was operated by the same family thereby guaranteeing a certain price as well as guaranteeing them the sale if you bought anything.)
In essence offline as well as online spamming pays.
[edited by: NFFC at 4:33 am (utc) on Nov. 12, 2002]
[edit reason] Specifics removed as per charter [/edit]
The first business that I ever got into involved that exactly. We had a store doing tremendous volume, so we opened another across the street selling the same category of goods, but different brands and slightly different price points. We dominated the category in that end of the city much like the SERP being described in this thread. Looking back, what drove us to do that was a void of competition in a certain category that was not being exploited.
Offline spamming? Maybe. It was profitable while it lasted. Eventually the competition caught on and moved into to try and help fill that void and we eventually scaled back to one location. I have the opinion the same will happen to SERPS that are dominated by one party.
<Reminiscing> I remember customers leaving one store after hearing by best pitch and seeing them drive across the street to the other. I would be on the phone to my partner pre-qualifying them. Life was sweet then.</Reminiscing>
[edited by: NFFC at 4:34 am (utc) on Nov. 12, 2002]
[edit reason] Specifics removed as per charter [/edit]
Yes, but did it match your query. If it was a search for <bleep> and the results came up for cars, then you have a case. To me it looks like google is serving up relevant results.
It would be unreasonable to expect Google to differentiate between a domain owned by a "company" and one owned by an individual, especially since so many online companies are owned by single individuals.
Asking Google to restrict either an individual or company to one domain would be, in my mind, undesirable.
I have several domains, most of which were up and providing useful content long before anything anything was being sold there.
Let's say, for example, I take an interest in mountain lions, developing a site providing information and photographs of mountain lions. Realizing that people who are searching for information on mountain lions might also be interested in buying posters and books relating to this subject, I add some affiliate links. Am I now a company? Do the affiliate links reduce the amount of useful information that is available on the site?
Let's imagine that, as a Christian, I also have a Bible site, including comparisons of Bible translations, a history of the Christian church, online Bible trivia quizzes, and other related content. I also sell Bibles and Bible resource material from the site.
If I were raising a child with, let's say Asperger Syndrome, I might be prompted to create a site on the disorder, including information, a support forum, and links to additional resources. I also sell books on the subject.
As a teacher, I might have an education site ... and so on.
Given an imaginary one company / one domain rule, would I have to talk about mountain lions and Christ on my Asperger site, or somehow work a Christian theme into a site about mathematics?
While some of you may disagree, the Internet isn't only about business. With such a rule, the web would be far less than it is now.
Yes, but did it match your query. If it was a search for <bleep> and the results came up for cars, then you have a case. To me it looks like google is serving up relevant results.
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I suppose you're right. You understand i'm not saying anything is wrong, but if the discussion is about identical content, this is on topic. Where do you draw the line? It's obvious at a glance that the layout of the thermometers is exactly the same on all 4 pages. The pages must be using the exact same source.
How would you feel if you queried "new 2003 car" and the first page of SERPs listed 10 different domains in the results, but each page had an identical photo of an identical Ford with the identical price? Would these be useful results for a search? It's obvious that someone has managed to manipulate (perhaps quite legitimately) the results of the search in a way that disadvantages the searcher.
