PR penality -How long does it last?

I think my sites receive PR -2 penality

[allanp73]

Last month I commited possibly the biggest mistake one could make, I heavily cross-linked my group of sites. I learned afterward that cross-linking is the kiss of death. So I quickly removed the cross-links. However, I was too late. The sites were already deeply crawled and after the update they had received a PR-2 penality. They went from having a PR6 to a PR4. The sites were only crossed linked for a couple of weeks. I won't have cross-linked them if I knew this would cause problems with Google. Actually, I did it with the intent of building a network to help the users. Now I use a links page on the sites to guide users. It would be nice if Google would tell us what strategies warrant penalities. It would greatly reduce the amount of spam (intention or not) they would receive.
So my question is how long will this penality last? I noticed that Google has deep crawled the sites with cross-links removed. Is there a chance that Google will forgive quickly? Is there anything I can do to make amends with the Google gods? I wish I had a goat :)

[jdMorgan]

This doesn't sound like a penalty in the usual sense. The only penalty that is sure is a PR0 penalty, and those tend to be permanent without a Google-human's intervention.

It sounds more likely that the linking strategy you used simply diluted the PR your pages had in the first place, or that you lost an important high-PR incoming link or links from other sites.

You should see results within 30 to 59 days of your last deep-crawl.

Hang in there!

Jim

[Beachboy]

Agree with JD, give it some time, and find a few PR5 sites to link to you. When Google gets vindictive, it tends to be an immediate PR0, not PR2.

[e2raygun]

Hi,

If a site has a PR0 does that mean it has a penalty? I have some sites that are in google, and get a few hits even, but they have a PR0. Is it possible to have PR0 jaust because you dont have alot of inbound links yet?

[Beachboy]

It is possible that PR0 doesn't mean a penalty. There have been a few times with sites I deal with, when they are new to the index, they show PR0, then the PR number appears with the following update. Doesn't happen all the time like that, but occasionally.

[jdMorgan]

e2raygun,

If your site has incoming links from other sites listed in Google, and is less than 2 months old, don't worry about it. The term "PR0 penalty" means that your page(s) had PR above zero at some time in the past and have lost it due to spammy on-site tactics, or to a GoogleGlitch.

Jim

[makemetop]

>The only penalty that is sure is a PR0 penalty, and those tend to be permanent without a Google-human's intervention...

No. A greyed toolbar (if placed through a ban) needs to be cleared by human intervention. A PR penalty is automated - and as such, can be cleared by removing the offence and being crawled for several updates without triggering another auto-penalty. If you do it - you can climb back to where you were - but very slowly!

[allanp73]

How slowly is very slowly?
I hope this next update brings some good news. I really think there should be a list of things not to do.

[jdMorgan]

allanp73,

Google Do's and Dont's [google.com]

All reports that I have read here on WebmasterWorld indicate that a PR0 is a long-lived sanction, and that a grey toolbar means "Google doesn't know your page rank because we haven't spidered that page or any page above it on your site (which would allow a 'guessed' PR to be displayed)." I will defer to makemetop, however, since I've never had a PR0 myself, and have not created a new domain since recently installing the toolbar (so I've never been grey-bar'ed, either).

Jim

[coosblues]

PR0 vs a gray toolbar. Ok, now besides wondering about the update now I'm really wondered if I angered the google gods. I have a new site - not quite two months old with a gray toolbar. It's been that way since the site was activated. I have an friend that opened his site and within two weeks had a PR0 (which has stayed that way and he's added no content). Would someone "in the know" have a look at my site and tell me if i've been given the kiss of death? I'm thinking that perhaps when google came through the first few times it couldn't read my navigation as it was heavily javascripted and the links couldn't be read. I know the bot is still visiting my site, came about 2 days ago and has been there 48 times in total. Someone, please help? thanks in advance.

[rfgdxm1]

If Googlebot is regularly coming around, that usually is a sign that you are in Google's good graces.

[2_much]

I had a few sites that were banned in August. Googlebot kept coming back and didnt' stop coming till October. I think for some reason the spider keeps checking the site and then finally stops altogether after 2 months.

[GoogleGuy]

allanp73, doesn't sounds like a penalty to me. On the two-month old site, you probably just have to get some initial links before you start seeing PageRank.

[nutsandbolts]

I would beg to differ on the several updates to automatically clear a penalty - I was going into my 11th Month with a 0 Pagerank penalty before the incredibly intelligent and underpaid GoogleGuy took a look. :)

[new_shoes]

One thing about linking that worries me:

I have two seperate domains, widget.com and widget.de - the same site content but presented in English and in German. On every page I have a little flag, so users can switch language.... and thus domain!

Every link points to the corresponding page on the other site. So on www.widget.com/links.html there is a direct link to www.widget.de/links.html and visa versa.

Is this considered crosslinking and might google penalise me for this? Is there some other way around it?

[nutsandbolts]

new_shoes: You will have no problems with that at all - plus it works well for the search engines and your visitors I reckon....

[Crush]

I do the same thing and had the same question. I have been ok up until now although it does concern me. I am doing nothing wrong but google may consider this to be cross linking. I would say limit the amount of links to a few important pages.

[new_shoes]

Thought you guys might like to know...

My widgets.com site has PR 7, and as I explained it links every single page to my widgets.de site, which I only launched mid october, so it has had a PR unknown until today.

And now my PR on widgets.de is..... *drumroll*.... 5!

Pretty good PR for first month, huh? :)

[hurlimann]

Jim, makemetop is right, A human ban can result in a grey bar: Indeed this is what has happened to some sites GG banned in the past: They are grey because they are not in the index.

[djgreg]

jdMorgan wrote:
>>only penalty that is sure is a PR0 penalty, and those >>tend to be permanent without a Google-human's >>intervention.

Is this the truth? When you once got the PR0 penalty it will never be neutralized without GoogleGuy or someone else have pity on me? :(

[johnser]

I have a small network of linked sites. (About 10)
None of these widget-widget.com domains are in the new index. Does this mean they've all been banned?

How can I verify this?
Should I drop the x-linking entirely?
Should I place them all on new IPs and resubmit?
Assuming I've all this done this w/end, am I likely to see the domains back in the index at the end of Nov?

TIA
J

[djgreg]

First you shoul dbe sure they have been penalized. Look if the toolbar shows a PR0.

[jdMorgan]

johnser,

After reading hurlimann's post, I will defer to those here who have actually received a PR0 penalty, as opposed to just a PR0 rank (which might be due to "fractional PageRank").

My understanding up to this point has been that a grey toolbar means that Google does not know your page exists. An all-white toolbar means that your page has received a PR0 penalty which tends to last a long time - or may be permanent. An exception for pages with very low PR may exist - There has been some speculation here that an all-white toolbar can mean that the PR exists, but is below PR1... IOW, "fractional PR".

IMO, Owners of sites which have existed for less than two months should not worry too much about either (grey/white) condition. Sites must be on-line for sufficient time to guarantee that their pages have been deep-crawled at least once before their PR can be determined. With perfect site-publishing timing, this takes a month. With worst-case timing, it can take up to two. Certainly, a PR0 on a site which has not been crawled is no cause for worry, unless it shares a known-spammy domain and is heavily cross-linked into it.

Off-topic cross-linking is a bad idea, as is anything that does not benefit the search user.

Any changes made in the next few days, and picked up by the upcoming deep crawl should appear at the end of the month.

I note that one recent poster in this thread has a site that recovered only after human intervention, and after a very long wait - perhaps he can provide some more expert advice for you.

Jim

[johnser]

Thx for that folks
All the sites were appearing very high on the serps for the last 6 months despite most of them having a grey bar.

Now they're not even in the index....
That make any sense?
J

[rogerd]

I'll add the note that there is definitely a "low PR" penalty. I can't say how this works (i.e., whether link credit is subtracted, PR is devalued by a number or a percent, etc.). There was a discussion a while back of "partial recovery" sites that had achieved PR2, 3, or 4, but were well below what one might expect for the level of linkage. It seems that manual intervention is the only fix for this condition.

[djgreg]

Would be very cruel, wouldn't it?
To take away somebodies PR and give him a lifetime penalty only because he made one bad mistake is not a very diplomatic policy?

[rogerd]

<<not a very diplomatic policy>>

That's why there are frequent calls for Google to have some kind of formal site review policy, even if it cost money...

[djgreg]

It does not necessarily cost money. It could be realized very easy by telling the bot, that the normal PR should be recovered when the code which caused the penalty has been dropped from a site. Or maybe they could recover the PR after 2 or 3 months to remind the webmaster that it is no good idea trying to cheat google. But a penalty forever or for lifetime is really unfair .

[jk3210]

coosblues -
>>Would someone "in the know" have a look at my site and tell me if i've been given the kiss of death? <<

I'm about as far from "in the know" as one can get, but it looks to me like you've got a PR2 with no inbound links yet. Doesn't look like the "kiss of death" to me.