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In November of this year, our largest site was struck by a PR0 penalty for reasons still unknown. I wrote Google for months and nothing was done or explained. I was finally able to contact a Google rep at the SES conference in Aug of this year and finally after a review the penalty was removed! (thanks again to the Google Rep)
In my business, my sales reflect my rankings. When the Google PR penalty was in place, times were tough. During that time my Yahoo presence is the only thing that saved me. If not for SE diversity, my business would have surely gone under. Google has just made it harder to diversify.
AOL, Yahoo (before the switch) and Google (before the latest algo change) accounted for 75% of our traffic and online sales. If I were assessed the same unjust, unexplained, unexpected and devastating PR0 penalty today, I would lose my business. With such a large market share, Google has to be accountable to webmasters when assessing penalties.
What do you think? Should Google offer a fee based review process? What about a PFI? I for one would pay for this service, anyone who suffered through the pain of PR0 would pay. It wouldn't compromise the results or give away any secrets. I don't see the problem with it.
So the fact remains at least ONE person at google feels the need to help webmasters who have been "victimized" or inadvertinaly left out for whatever reason.
There's no reason for them to reveal why we are penalized. A simple yes or no would suffice. If we are not, they then send the site to be immediately and fully re-spidered. If we are, too bad. It's not like you call in to ask why and beg for mercy, and then chargeback if you are not satisfied. Or the whole process could be fully automated. I would gladly pay $50/month for a status of my site.
In fact, it could help Google since it would encourage webmasters to keep their sites clean.
In fact, it could help Google since it would encourage webmasters to keep their sites clean.
But, what I fear is that an amount of 'obscurity' [maybe 'random-powered' he..], in the Google eyes, may keep the large majority of SEOs away from trying reverse-eng their algo.
And their algo is definately [for now] their core $$.
cminblues
Yes it would. Compare a yes to (0) and a no to (1). Give enough people enough ones and zeros and they'll hand the algo back to Google with a bow wrapped around it.
For your scenario to work as described people would have to know why their site was being penalized, and if the handy Google tech just answered with, "Sorry, can't tell ya that" then cui bono?
The other scenario is pointless as well, a person calls to find out if they have been penalized, Google tech answers with a "no" and then the person is still left wondering why the site is in the cellar.
The idea is to present the site to someone and if the site is NOT penalized, or if it was dropped for some innocent reason, to get it back in right away.
Then we can dispense with the line of reasoning that this service would help Google in regard to keeping sites clean as what you are now talking about is a process to keep sites from inadvertantly being dropped which has absolutely nothing to do with PFI, site review, etc. Since Googlebot finds its way around quite well it looks like Google is already endeavoring to keep innocent sites in the index.
IMHO you are out of touch with the average person. Wasn't this coountry built on the foundation that you can do anything or acheive anything no matter how small you were? Why shouldn't the small guy be allowed the opportunity to make a living? So the best way was for the small guy to submit to the free listings and spend some money for inclusion. This allows the small guy to play on a more level playing field. Now that Google is in control of such a large portion of the internet searches, only the big companies that can spend thousands of dollars on SEO are going to win. People keep mentioning that all it takes to have a high ranking is hard work. What about the small guy who spends 15-18 hours a day working in his business? Where the heck is he going to find the countless hours it will take to optimize his site?
So I don't think Google owes anything to webmasters, but they should take into consideration the small guy.
just more of a realist than a idealist.
I guess by "this country?" you are referring to the USA? So i cant comment as ive only been there a few times - apart from this on my rudimentary understanding of US history. The legend of the "little guy" I think was of someone who worked really hard and learned how to overcome the disadvantages of being the little guy. Becuase of that and US's fairly egalitarian and "young country" culture less bound to history, tradition and privilage such as older cultures of Asia and Europe, eventually they became a "big guy".
I'm sorry. I just cant see any way the new Y! index disadvantages the little guy as i undertand the concept, when it has just put more focus on a free listing index rather than a very expensive paid listing service.
Well I'm also thinking along the lines of if you had no reason to suspect a penalty, you could find out why. Let's look at GoogleGuy's last 2 "miracles" ;) ..one person with a previously spammed out domain, another that used WPG a little too much. Perhaps by requesting a review of the site, Google would come to the conclusion that they could forgive and forget some "minor offences" if they let the user know what they did was wrong.
Perhaps all the minor offences could be let known to the webmaster and they will know when they are eligible for parole. :) All major felanies (serious attempts to spam) could be kept known only to Google and they will just say "sorry, this site is penalized indefinately".
Hmmmm... the more I think about it, the more I realize Google is in a position to rule the world :)
Then you get the trusted feeds that are willing to flood the serps with rubbish slowly destroying a great SE. Originally i was happy to see Yahoo's Serps now I worry about the next update ~(algo change really). so far the algo changes have all been good for me and i hope they stay that way but PFi would stop the algo change it would only change how quickly you moved up and down the rankings.
as for yahoo it was only 2 weeks ago i sat down to start working out a the best way to get results from them, I guess that was two weeks wasted and so i will turn my attention to fast but what else in left.
If google ever decides change it's business model which PFi would be would it not be a better business model for them to extract more money from its partners and let them have trusted feeds, what would a yahoo directory listing cost if they appeared on the first page in google?
Lets keep google free it's one of the reasons why everbody uses it.
DaveN
I adore Google. I think it's a wonderfully magnificent search engine (although this new index is a bit pants) but with it's massive wide-ranging reach it has to offer something for the little guy who doesn't know WHY his site has been dropped. Heck, how did he know linking up to blahblahblah.org would turn his site to mud?
this thread is Google PFI - do you owe it to webmasters?
I agree with you their support is non existent and a pay help forum or support desk helpline would help.
But when INK trashed my results once I went PFI there was no real support and i am still wait on lycos insite program for a answer on what happen why i dropped 300 places. so if you want to pay google to perform a like lycos just did for me go ahead i think the very completive area would become a lot less completive ;)
DaveN
[edited by: DaveN at 8:22 am (utc) on Oct. 11, 2002]
The Google do’s and don’ts [google.com] are quite hard to find and not altogether comprehensive and I suspect that the average webmaster who puts a site up will not really be aware of some or any of the pitfalls unless they have read places like WebmasterWorld or the TOS.
At the end of the day we all know the SEO game can be a fine line, if you choose to play hard you may have to pay. Come on you know what is risky. It is up to G to do whatever they like with the algo, its theirs!. If they make a big mistake people will move on to another engine that may one day take its place. It is a two way street. In the same way you practice safe sex, you should practice safe SEO. I know I do.
Cheers
Heck, how did he know linking up to blahblahblah.org would turn his site to mud?
Just walked to the shop and thought about this a little. You do have a point. So how about a compromise.
Google post a list of reasons why you might get a penalty. They have the right to change that whenever they see fit or feel like eradicating "bombing" etc. Then if they do change the algo your ranking may drop next month but you have a 2 update period of grace. If after that time you have not corrected your errors : Here's you own personal ban Sir.
"A Google Grace Guideline for when alog changes absolutey positively have to occur."
Cheers
