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Strange position in rankings

... apologies if obvious but I can't work out what is going on.

         

JonnyWales

10:25 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As a releative novice with SEO I'm trying to understand the various rankings my site achieves with different keywords.

My business is specialised organization software and there is one particular keyword which defines precisely what it is all about eg. KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2. My postion in Google is now as follows, with last months positions in parenthesis:-

KEYWORD1 - position 42 (55)
KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2 - position 136 (11)
KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2 KEYWORD3 - position 18 (1)

I'm still reading avidly the various thories behind the latest algorithm but I'm failing to understand why we now rank higher on a much more widely used single-word keyword than our main 2-word keyword (accounting for 90% of visistors). Last month had a seemingly more logical appearance in that our position improved the more specific the keyword.

Any theories appreciated. :)
TIA
Jonny

glengara

10:32 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



How's your KW density on keyword-keyword-keyword?
I think I got done for too high density on a 4 word keyphrase.

deejay

10:41 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Makes sense to me.

From my assessment Google has lowered the 'ideal keyword density' threshold in this algo.

Say, for example, last month it might have been 12%... this month it is 8%.

Let's say you made no changes to your page, and for both months your keyword densities are:

single word: 7%
two word phrase: 14%
three word phrase: 19%

It's all about how close your keyword densities are to Google's ideal.

single word last month: 7% - 12% = 5
single word this month: 7% - 8% = 1
Result: Improved ranking this month.

two word phrase last month: 14% - 12% = 2
two word phrase this month: 8% - 12% = 4
Result: Worse ranking this month

three word phrase last month: 19% - 12% = 7
three word phrase this month: 19% - 8% = 11
Result: Worse ranking this month

The reason there is a greater disparity in SERP placement between this and last month on the two word phrase versus the three word phrase is likely to be that there are simply more results for the two word phrase.

Of course that's a horribly simplified version, and there are the other 99+ factors that Google ranks to be taken into account, but all other things being equal, the above can explain the shift you are seeing.

deejay

10:46 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



This sort of shift also can account for a lot of the complaints you are seeing around the place at the moment about 'irrelevant' results.

In a worst case scenario, a site with 1% density on a keyword is going to come out ahead of a site with 15% if the threshold is set at, say 7%.

NFFC

10:52 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



JonnyWales, try searching for your keywords enclosed in quotes. Do the results look more like they were for you?

deejay

10:54 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



ugh... too late... brain too fuzzy...

meant to say that the above example obviously assumes that G is using the same density figure for single and multiple keyword phrases... which they may well be.

But even if they do use a different density figure for multiple phrases, eg, 1 word=7%, 2 word=12%, I think the above will still hold true.

It could be that in lowering the threshold so much they are going for more natural language use in the results, rather than say catalog pages with frequent repitition. Which also seems to agree with sentiment being expressed that commercial sites are out of favour and content sites are in.

right.. that's it... had to correct that a dozen times and I'm still not sure it's making sense :) off to bed.

JonnyWales

11:19 am on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The keyword density theory is a firm possibiliy. Using the density analysis tool on this site I obtained the following values :-

KEYWORD1 - 14%
KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2 - 34%
KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2 KEYWORD3 - 33%

These values sound high although re-reading the text doesn't make it obvious that I am repeating the key phrases too often ... perhaps I'm too close to the subject and need some objective views.

I shall reword certain phrases and see if this helps.

NFFC, I tried repeating the searches putting the search phrases in quotations and the only one any different was "KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2 KEYWORD3" which moved up from position 18 to position 6.

Thanks for the feedback
Jonny

JonnyWales

12:10 pm on Oct 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Using the keyword analyzer tool on this site (and not excluding anything ie. page title, meta keywords or meta description) it indicates that my 2-word keyword appears 10 times. When I view my html source it breaks down as follows :-

Comments : Keyword appears 5 times
Title : 1
Meta Keywords : 2
Body text :5

In total therefore it appears 13 times. Does the analyzer tool ignore the keyword if it appears in the title or Meta keywords, otherwise how does it make it out to appear 10 times?

I didn't realise there were as many occurances in comments so this is going to be reviewed asap.