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Internal pages and PR... again...

         

bcc1234

1:33 pm on Sep 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi, does anybody have conclusive evidence that internal pages (do not) add to the pagerank of the home page?

I've checked many sites and tried to match the PR to the number of internal pages (all having link to home) to the number of external links (with their PR) and nothing consistent came up.

Anybody? Anything?
Help! I need some peace of mind :)

muesli

10:04 pm on Sep 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



i recently posted my opinion on PR by internal pages:
[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...] (middle of post)

evidence? no, unfortunately not.

Torben Lundsgaard

10:42 pm on Sep 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



IMO any page has the potential to pass on PR. I beleive that have I enough empirical data to I conclude that all my sites/pages get PR from internal pages.

bcc1234

3:24 am on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I kinda had the same feeling as both of you guys.

fathom

3:37 am on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



My personal opinion - links to your home page provide PR there which is transferred to other pages decreasing as you get further away. I really don't believe these same pages pass more PR back to the home page since that PR began there (they really don't have their own externally generated PR to pass on). Another way of looking at it is that the home page is getting only that back for which it shared and not a gain.

However, should other pages have inbounds links and the home page is directly linked to this (or at least close enough) then PR would be added.

Having numerous pages (other than home page) that site owners link to has allowed deeplinked pages (5 deep) to retain and pass on PR evenly thoughout the site and at the same level of the home page.

europeforvisitors

3:56 am on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)



However, should other pages have inbounds links and the home page is directly linked to this (or at least close enough) then PR would be added.

On some sites, internal pages often have inbound links from external sources that range from directories like the ODP to related content sites. I think a lot of us forget that when we make assumptions about PageRank being only "trickle-down" and never "trickle-up."

fathom

4:39 am on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Very true europeforvisitors.

On a site now with 600 pages, all but a dozen (mostly new) are PR4 and above.

50+ pages have inbounds, three of which have almost as many as the home page.

bcc1234

1:37 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I really don't believe these same pages pass more PR back to the home page since that PR began there (they really don't have their own externally generated PR to pass on).

That's the part I'm having a problem with.

If any given page did not have a PR of it's own - where would it all start?
In that case all PR's of all pages would be 0 :)

Any page must have some PR in order for the formula to work and if you are not going to integrate (which would be an impossible task for a billion of pages) but would rather assume some start value and iterate - then you do need some value to start.

Torben Lundsgaard

1:58 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



All pages have a PR. PR is not an index value for the whole site. IMO all pages can pass on PR and doesn't matter if they have external or internal links.

Many internal pages haven't got a lot of PR to pass on and it is often split up in 10-20 internal links, which means that the value of most internal pages is low. However, I have managed to boost PR of main category and frontpage from PR6 to PR7 just by improving the internal link network

ciml

2:15 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



bcc, there's a tiny start value called the 'rank source'. It's given to each URL at each iteration, and it corresponds to the decay factor that is removed from all URLs at each iteration.

It's the log scale that confuses people. If you double your PageRank, the Toolbar scale only goes up 0.3 to 0.4 of a notch, which of course is not visible unless you move from one notch to another.

6 * 2 = 12, but logn(n^6 * 2) = 6.3 or 6.39, assuming a log base 'n' of 6 or 10. The rank source is therefore unimaginably small, and while internal links do count, they don't help as much as some people think.

We tend to assume that the rank source is uniform, so the tiny start value at each iteration is the same for all URLs. This need not be the case, though, and the early Backrub papers describe how a non-uniform rank source can be used to create a personalised PageRank.

bcc1234

2:31 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That does sound logical.
Thanks guys.