Any value in an MSN link?

Guessed PR or real Pr?

[ikbenhet1]

ok,last night i downloaded the google toolbar for the very first time.

Also I saw the PR's for the very first time!

(wow, thank u guys for tellin me, somehow i managed to forget it).

after surfing(and checking pr's with my new toolbar) a while i say something that i could not beleive.

I saw that the pages i made for free, and which content i am allowed to change at anytime now have pr7 ranking!

at this time my mind goes wild

i have made some serious mistakes in the past now i see that, cause there were so many pr7 links to me and i managed to screw up my ranking this month, by putting lot's a links on these pr7 pages the pr passed to my site became minmal....

but thanks to the google toolbar i can now check my sites.

I know you guys wanna know how to get linkback from pr7,
before i show u guys how to do this, and give u the information to get your own unlimited pr7 linkbacks for free!

I need some answers please,
so give a some good answer i can u use and i give u the information you want for linkbacks on pr7 sites.

I remember that i created these pages myself on a free server,

suddenly these pages rate pr7, and i know why and i'll tell you also, but i will help you if you help me, cause it's not like everyday someone tells you how te create a pr7 linkback for free right?

you got to help me here, is it a big deal if some pr7 pages linking back to me?

What affect will this have on my ranking?

How many pr7 linkbacks do i need to get pr1 for my site?

How many pr7 linkbacks do i need to get pr7 for my site?

[edited by: ikbenhet1 at 9:31 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2002]

[NFFC]

>What affect will this have on my ranking?

That depends if they are real PR or "guessed" PR. Are the PR7 pages that link to you listed in Google and/or are they quite new pages?

BTW welcome to WebmasterWorld ikbenhet

[ikbenhet1]

the pages are new, i saw that pages i created last month have pr's of 7 now.

can i post 1 of these urls below to show you.

if i go to this site, the pagerank meter on my toolbar says pr 7/10 that is not a guessed pr right?

[eplus]

you can probably find out if it's a guessed page rank buy looking to see who links to the page in googles link check bit, just type in the full address do a search and click the sites that link bit. If their are none (or rather their isn't even the option to check links) google doesn't have your page in it's index and the pr is infact a guess based on the page rank of the main domain name (probably geocities or something).

If the page isn't in the index then google assigns no value to any links from that site as it doesn't know about them. Also the page will never turn up in a google search (because it doesn't know it exists). The only way to get a page rank of 7 is to have either a lot of reasonable page rank sites linking to you or at least have a few high page rank sites linking to you (one pagerank 9 would probably do it maybe even a pr8 if you were the only link?). Sorry I personally don't like the guessed page rank thing as it's very misleading when you are doing SEO, I guess it's still useful to a normal user though. There are a few high page rank sites who you can get a link from buy using automated methods but not many.

[ikbenhet1]

i just have looked in google to see,

and the newest pages are not in the database, cause they were made this month and i do not link to them myself...

but i typed the url (of one that exists longer) and it showed up in google and when i click it the pr goes to 7 again, but

when i click on link:thatsite.com no links linking to that site show up.

now, if i it is a guesed pr of 7 , what absolute pr will it have?

[bcc1234]

now, if i it is a guesed pr of 7 , what absolute pr will it have?

...then it does not have a pr. It's not indexed. If it were indexed and had a real pr - the toolbar would not have to guess, it would just show the real pr in the first place.

[McMohan]

Things will be clear if you give an example. Plz check your sticky mail.

[ikbenhet1]

NOTE that this site is listed in google, so i do not think it is a guessed pr.

i give u an example:

NOTE THAT THE CONTENTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS SITE AND A LINK BACK TO WEBMASTERWORLD HAS BEEN PLACED, so i can give u this example:

<edit>URL snipped
pr=6, listed in google,

ps. you must log in to your hotmail or msn account to be able to visit. It will ask for it if you are not logged in.

i do not link to this site.

so this pr is not pr passes down from my sites to this site, it is so that every page you create here (on this domain), WILL BE RANKED 6 or HIGHER, depending on community activity

SO, what do you guys have to say about this...

is it real/guessed pr? and some more info please, like will whis site pass through it's pr to links on this site?

or not?

[edited by: ikbenhet1 at 10:42 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2002]

[edited by: NFFC at 10:45 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2002]

[Iguana]

Sounds like new pages on geocities <Edit>just seen entry above - MSN then</Edit>. They get a guessed PR7 until they are indexed and are given a real PR which actually depends on the links to them.

[ikbenhet1]

reply to the message above,

i would love to beleive about guessed pr but,

this site is listed in google, so i have trouble beleiving it is a guessed pr,

pr can only be guessed if that site is not indexed right?

[Iguana]

Hi ikbenhet

Yes, I did find it in Google. I did a search for groups/ etc which gave me a message of 'Sorry, no information is available for the URL' but when I clicked on 'Web pages that contain the term' I found it in the index.

However when I clicked on the actual page in the search results I got a PR of 'not ranked by Google'

I find something similar in the Yahoo Geocities directory. Sometimes I find a category like 'widgets' through the search and get a PR7. In fact this is a guessed PR because if I click higher up the path and then drill down to Category Listing/widgets it shows a PR3. It sounds like something similar with this MSN group.

If only PR was so easy...

<Edit>Ooops - I was getting muddled with my searches - I agree it looks like a PR6 - but it has no links to it so it must be guessed?</Edit>

[edited by: Iguana at 10:54 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2002]

[eplus]

what search string returns the page in google? or do you mean when you type the domain name in google it says this is a valid link?

[eplus]

If you want us to be able to see an example please put the link in your user profile that way we can all access it.

[ikbenhet1]

okay, i've put the exact link in the profile,

Iguana

i know you checked the site that was listed in google under keywords "blondemeiden" but,

google still shows the old domain and that domain redirecs to sub page on the new domain, which has little pr.

(old domain: communities.msn,com new domein: groups.msn.com)

please go to the url shown in the profile to see exactly what i mean.

. it's too bad i cant enter more urls in my profile, it would certainly make thing easier to explain for me.

but i am working on it right now.

[edited by: ikbenhet1 at 11:32 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2002]

[Iguana]

I've just tried again

I actually typed "<msn>/blondemeiden/" in Google and it gave the 'No info found'

Clicking on 'Contain the terms'and then 'repeat search with omitted results' it didn't come up with the actual page - just the /setting and /join pages - so I think the actual home page isn't indexed.

[lazyz]

There are many "free servers" available that will give you instant page rank but you might find the cache of the pages are the generic entry or welcome page of the server/free service itself. Unless your site is found when a surfer is searching for particular key words, PR7 won't do you a bit of good. High page rank means nothing unless you are in a competative market with competative key words and you are at the top of the serps.

[eplus]

ok this sounds a bit odd but as far as google is concerned these are two entirely different pages, one is
www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/index.htm

this is the one you see with the high guessed page rank and the other is

www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=nl-nl

This one has a very naf non existent page rank, this is the true page rank of the site. As google will treat a small number of variables as being different pages the page rank assigned to this page _homepage.msnw?pgmarket=nl-nl will be very different to the index.htm page.
The site has it set up some most variations on index.htm, .html, .msnw etc or homepage.htm, etc, etc all point at the same page which is the one you are seeing.

The only thing is that as far as google is conserned all of these are different urls and therefore different pages so they all have the potential for different page ranks to be assigned to them.

Google only has one of these pages indexed _homepage.msnw?pgmarket=nl-nl and so it can only assign a pagerank to this particular page. Based on the one or two low ranking link it's found pointing at this page it has assigned a very low page rank to the page. In the case of the index.htm page (or whatever variety of this you want to look at) google has no record of it or of anything pointing to it so it has to guess the page rank based on the pagerank of the domain name. That is why it looks so artificially high but this is only a guess and is in fact worthless.

If it's any concillation google will probably crawl the page during the next index as all our toolbars will have been reporting back to google that the page exists though without any better links to the page it probably won't get indexed and therefore still show a guessed pr.

[eplus]

ikbenhet1, not a criticism just a suggestion that when you edit a post try to leave as much of the original as possible in there and put an [edit] comment [/edit] at the bottom to say what you did. It's not essential it just makes it easier to follow the thread if you read it after the edit.
Sorry to dissapoint on the page rank thing, I too was very confused about the guessed page rank when I first started reading about it.

[ikbenhet1]

ok i had it.
rederect and bad things.
i'm gonna search google now, i will show my finding in few minutes.

[edit]
first of all, i see that the url i'm refering to is not listed in google.

I would love to write all my thoughts here, but i cannot get trusable information when i cannot see myself in the search result, therefore i cannot test this url.

So i will give another url

forgive me for writing this url down, but i already have a url in my profile.

[groups.msn.com...]

LINK:HTTP://groups.msn.com/Canadaimmigration

SHOWS 0 LINKS LINKING TO IT, BUT IT HAS A PR 5.

I THINK I WAS RIGHT AL ALONG, YOU GET FREE PR ON THESE FREE SITES. YOU CAN SEE HOW HE MAKES USE OF THIS PR OF THE MSN SITE, HE ONLY LISTS HIS OWN SITES CAUSE HE WANT A HIGHER RANKING WITH THOSE.

i will defenately spend more attention tho this matter this week, to find out more.

-------
i'm still searching, but i read e-plus message, and i wanna say this,
yes i noticed that there are lotta ways to go to that page.
You can use:
www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=nl-nl (pr=0)
but look here:
www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/ (pr=7)
www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/index.htm (pr=7)
www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/index.html (pr=7)
www.big-page-ranked-site.com/blondemeiden/index.htmllala (pr=0)
--------

[/edit]

[edited by: ikbenhet1 at 12:13 pm (utc) on Aug. 19, 2002]

[Brett_Tabke]

There's little value in a msn or geocities link.

Try a search: inurl:geocities.com

I read that a Yahoo tech said there were 62million geocities pages. That means Google has indexed less than 5% of them. Obviously, a pr filter at work before they even get in the index. I'm sure the same is true for all the other free hosts.

The page has to preform before it has any value. Catch 22.

[eplus]

Sorry ikbenhet1 but it really is a virtual page rank and not worth much. I'm not trying to hide anything from you merely help you understand whats going on (as best as I understand it) and not waste too much time setting up these sites. Even 1 link on a well ranked guetbook would probably be of more value than twenty of these unlinked sites. I just don't want you spending two months making lots of these sites and then not getting anywhere.

You really should ask yourself this if there was an easy sure fire way of getting a pr7 site without any effort what would all of us be talking about here? Also wouldn't you think that google would close this loophole if it really was there?

Have fun

[ikbenhet1]

yes, i thought of that before.

it must be because msn has a directory for it's groups.

These directories do link to these groups, and i assume a directory of msn got lotta pr, so therefore i thought that it could be possible that the pr is so high.

[ikbenhet1]

i hope this is the last message i post on this topic,

e-plus,

i beleive you, cause the site is not listed in google, so you are right obaut the guessed pr.

but here's a site that IS listed in google, and has a real pr:

[groups.msn.com...]

please check this site and tell me what you think.
there are no links to [groups.msn.com...]
according to google, but it does have a pr of 5.

[edit]
the reason my site has guessed pr, is because there are no links to the new domain. So google does'nt index this yet.
[/edit]

[eplus]

Google shows two of four links to me when I look? It does look like a page rapidly on it's way out of the index to me though.

[ikbenhet1]

do you mean when you search these sites in google,

i dont know about you but check this out:

he rankes #1 with 'cicnet' , 'wrconsulting' and 'immigrationcentre'.

i only checked the first 3 sites.

as you can see msn CAN infuences google very much