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I put up a pretty amateur initial shop website a few months ago (the new one is much better!). I used big headers, lots of keywords, possibly too many named links to the same page - I wasn't cheating - I was very green - it just seemed reasonable. It did great - 6/10 (I've only just learned how to see PRs - fact is it was at the top of the search - what does the PR matter!). I've since re-designed the site, and I'm now paranoid about this PR0 business - but does PR0 really mean you're ditched - or that you merely don't have a rank!
Second story - are you still awake! - I put my masters thesis up on the Net because I thought someone might want to read it! Google crawled it, listed it, then dumped it. I went into a panic about duplicate entry pages etc. But this wasn't the problem - to a human the content was highly relevant to the subject, but to a simple robot it wasn't(and I do think the Google robot is fairly simple - it has to be to work so fast). So I made the chapter headings in the title page refer more directly to the title content and - 6/10.
My new site has dropped to 5/10 due to being dropped by DMOZ (I think because I had far too honestly stated that the shop was closed until the re-launch). A new info page full of content though is 6/10. Again - no clever tricks. My shop pages - which are barely optimised all score 3/10 - and this includes pages I've uploaded in the past day. So the site itself must carry a latent PR.
My index page by the way varies in PR by +/-1 depending on which of my pages I visit it from!
I'm really not convinced that PR0 means punishment it might simply mean that a site is not ranked! If you have a scale from 0-10, surely there is room for the odd 0 somewhere!
What do you think?
Everyday I read about how this person thinks he/she is banned/penalized, or how this one thinks Google is "out to get them" for something or other. I don't find it worth the hassle, and personally, I don't keep track of PR at all.
The way to "owning" Google is this:
1. Follow basic SEO tips.
2. Write good, keyword rich content.
3. Obtain reciprocal links from relevant sites (regardless of PR).
4. Wait 2-3 months.*
(*if necessary, rinse and repeat)
This strategy has worked for me without fail on EVERY site I've ever worked on, since back in '98, when hardly anyone had ever even HEARD of Google yet.
It sounds really simple and basic, but it works.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
There are definitely penalties! What you have done sounds pretty safe though.
[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 10:32 pm (utc) on July 31, 2002]
[edit reason] added link [/edit]
It's more like SEC (Search Engine Content) now.
It used to be tweaking a few words, a doorway or thirty, ect. The paranoia two years ago used to be all about Yahoo! banning your site.
Now it's the girth and span of content - and penalities are all about those that attempt to cheat to attain that goal.
It does alarm me if I see or hear of a PR 6-8 site going PR 0 - and I absolutely would want to know why that happened.
There's always going to br paranoia because some folks don't just maintain a site or two - some maintain anywhere from 10 to 100 web site (or more!). If a client is unhappy, and unranked because of a "slip"... that means that your business will suffer.
Paranoia is good sometimes as it makes us pay attention to small details that we normally might ignore.
I suspect Google is fairly simple, but busy and makes mistakes. Once again, I stress that this must be so in order to crawl so rapidly
Let's just say that it's changed the available options.
>It's more like SEC (Search Engine Content) now.
heh! That's pretty good. If I see "content is king" much more, I'm going to be ill.
>must be so in order to crawl so rapidly
10,000 servers provides a lot of horsepower.
But, yes, paranoia is the norm. It used to be just this way when AV ruled the serps.
I echo RCJordan. How many times have we heard this in the last 5 years (or more for us newbies)?
Covering several K of hits per day - 60% of my hits (minimum) are NOT from Google. That's with sites getting thousands of uniques per day from Google. I know it's free traffic, I know you love them (as do I) - but nothing lasts for ever - and anything that earns you money is unlikely to be an everlasting freebie!
Cover all the bases people ;)
Does PR0 = in the pooh, or does PR0 = not ranked.
If no one has a clear idea about this, then it really is looking like paranoia!
Kind regards
Nick
Sorry about that :)
If you have been ranked with a PR1 or more for 2 updates or more - then it is very possible that your PR0 means you are, indeed, in the pooh!
If your site has just been added to Google, it is quite possible that your PR0 is just that. No PR has been picked up from incoming links but give it an update or 2 - you will gain the PR your site has earned.
So (unfortunately) PR0 can mean both things. Only the site owner knows which one is the most likely (IMHO).
I have a site which might be said to contain duplicate content to my main site. This month it got PR0. It hasn't been up long enough to stand on it's own. So it went to 2 daily uniques from 100. I'm not complaining. The new site stinks. AND the old site has gone from 5,000 daily uniques to 6,000 this update. So I'll take this update over last anytime.
One other personal experience. I use a lot of very simple dynamic pages. One month Google just didn't carry these in the database. My referrals went from 900 down to 300. That's 600 daily uniques I didn't have for a full month. Based on how much I make per visitor, that's a lot of doe-ray-me.
But the point is that this is not paranoia. It is reality.
PR0 can be defined as being dropped or being banned I suppose. I forget what the difference between grey and white is but one means you've been zapped and the other means you ain't good enough to matter.
NickJAllen, no offense but I think you need to read more posts if you believe that your actual PR varies depending on which page you've clicked in on, if you think the scale is really 1 - 10, and if you think losing a DMOZ listing while you re-decorate isn't that big of a deal. You might also want to look into real and guessed PR.
Nothing nasty about this. I just think there is a lot you have missed.
This board has given me a full 80% increase in SE traffic in just a couple months. And I'm beginning to see these same first time visitors come back so this isn't just some sort of SEO fluff.
Last issue, how's about giving us a gander at your domain via your profile?
A few points;
I've read these posts very carefully indeed.
I'm pretty distressed at losing my DMOZ listing, and I've taken steps to have it re-included. One must be patient.
Of course Google draws from DMOZ, but it would indeed be paranoic to assume that Google has influence over the contents of DMOZ! (Google still unwittingly has me listed in it directory anyway - so nothing sinister there!)
I have no zero page ranks - all are healthy.
As for the varying PR for my index page - why would I lie? From some pages in my site it scores 5 on the Google toolbar; if the index is typed in as a URL it scores 4 - fact.
Finally, my posting commenced with a clear statement explaining how much I've learned from posts on WebMaster World.
And finally, finally - do you think I'm going to give my URL out to a flamer!
Kind regards
Nick
Google has no influence over what is included in DMOZ. The ODP editors do. The Google directory is taken directly from the DMOZ directory.
Losing a DMOZ directory listing is one of the worst things that can happen to you in terms of how you are rated in the serps. I hope you have no problem getting back into DMOZ. I didn't know they reviewed the directory so actively as to kick many sites out. I've seen sites listed that have been gone for years. Are you sure your competitor is not the editor?
Your page rank may vary based on which page you come in from either because in one iteration you have www and on the other you don't. Or in either case your PR is estimated not real.
Glad you have no zeros. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But the real point I was making was in reaction to the real point you were making. You said you thought there was Google paranoia on this board. I'm saying that it isn't paranoia.
Flamer? What's your definition of a flamer? I was specifically responding to your points. There's nothing personal about this. I hope you don't think I was engaging in some sort of assault against you. I was engaging in an assault on some of the things you said.
This board, the people in it and the messages on it are outstanding and that is the most important thing.
To be honest, I'm a little baffled by the drop from DMOZ. My category doesn't have an editor - so I had to contact the next editor up in the structure. (7 days ago)
There have been recent posts about the importance of DMOZ for Google listings - in my experience they *are* important - worth 1 PR.
But more importantly, you get a larger and longer listing in Google. And keywords from the directory description seem to have influence - makes sense given that the site has been assessed for content by a human. Then there is the spin off to other sites that use DMOZ.
Nevertheless, I don't think it's the end of the world.
I wouldn't mind - but my category only has 27 listings - not exactly full!
Kind regards
Nick
