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What searches does Google fall down on?

Let's turn it around a little bit

         

GoogleGuy

1:27 am on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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In the thread about Google Labs, I asked what searches people wanted to see. Now let me turn it around and ask--what searches aren't great on Google? Are there any times you start to head to Google and then think "You know, Google's not going to do well on that. I'll go somewhere else." ?

ciml

9:43 am on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Topic sensitivity is the biggest thing missing from Google. Whether that's best using predefined categories (eg. ODP), machine chosen clustering (eg. Teoma) or additional input from the searcher (eg. "topic" box) I don't know.

Whichever way, topical PageRank would be much better than simply filtering by word, IP, domain, etc. (althouth those types of filters might be used to seed the search).

It would make my job harder in a lot of cases, but I can see that the cases in which topic sensitivity would make my job easier are the ones where I really do worth for the main "authority" in that phrase domain.

backus

9:51 am on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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If a site returns lots of results in a row - or interconnecting sites return lots of results in a row (i.e. example.com - .co.uk - .jp - .se - .cz - etc) then the result would be rolled up under top domain. (i.e. Example.com - This page has related domains. Click here to expand results.)

Alby

11:34 am on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I would like to see Google downgrade all these spam sites with "multi-keyword domains" like:www.keyword1-keyword2-keyword1-keyword2-variationofkeyword1.com. There are very few serious businesses that would use that sort of domain for their main site, and I would say that 99% of domains with 4 or more words separated by hyphens are doorway sites or other forms of spam.

sean

12:08 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Widgets.

Chiyo beat me to it. Actually, this is a good place to tie in Chiyo's earlier commentary on Adwords pricing and how it can discourage bids on precise terms. The 'yellow pages dynamic' is only achieved by having a large and diverse group of advertisers, so Google would do well to establish a marketplace on regional and specialized searches.

Crazy_Fool

12:57 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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i have to agree with danny about the "java roadblock". it should be fairly easy to categorise sites either through the spidering or through the google / ODP directory. one search i did a while ago was for "excess baggage" (for shipping) and the search results were full of comments about a movie called "excess baggage". they still are.

egomaniac

1:08 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Run a search for "sales leads" on Google and the first results are all sites that want to sell me sales leads and mailing lists. This is relevant for some people. But if I am a sales rep looking for ways to get more sales leads, I might want to read an article or a book on how to get sales leads. There are no articles in the top results because the can't compete with the PageRank of the top sites in this competitive category.

Perhaps adding themes to Google's algorithm could help on searches like this.

digitalghost

1:18 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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If you type in "books about sales leads" sans quotes the results are better. Same thing for "excess baggage fees."

As for Java, well, this explains it: [gksoft.com...] :)

DG

born2drv

1:40 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I also do not like to use google when searching for specific, brand-name type products for shopping.

Perhaps google could cross-reference URLS from adwords and give the URL in the search a boost, if the clickthrough is high in adwords?? This would make sense if clickthrough is high, because the user knows it is an advertisement to sell a product, therefor validating the search result for that URL for other searchers.

Just a thought :)

przero

3:08 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>specific, brand-name type products

I've found Google returns good results for some specific brand name products. It really depends on the web sites who sell those products and whether they've created search engine-friendly pages.

For example I did a search for a specific UPS battery last week and found a lot of results, but on the other hand I have had a hard time finding certain cycling shoes before; though there were sites out there who sold those shoes, their pages just didn't get into Google because they were flashy and commercial.

Google kinda can't control that. I do think a "Shopping" tab, as suggested earlier, might be helpful.

born2drv

4:36 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Or, instead of a "shopping" tab, maybe just a checkbox for "commercial" sites when searching. A toggle switch for "commercial" and "search" results. When the commercial is selected, it could show 100% adwords in order of clickthrough relevence.

I only use 2 search engines to find anything, google for all my general inquiries and hard to find products and information, and overture to find shopping sites when I'm looking to shop.

4crests

4:36 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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przero, brn2drv....

yes, a shopping tab would be great.

Someone above mentioned they thought this would be bad for Google because Google is known for pure results. I have to disagree. If it were in a seperate Tab somewhere and not in the main SERPS, I don't see a problem. I find myself going to SHOPPER.com when searching for computer parts. Unfortunately SHOPPER only includes electronics. I would love to stay on Google for these types of commercial searches. I could think of all kinds of ways Google could make money from a shopping section.

mediaspinner

4:56 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)



Well, this may sound sorta strange, but since google already uses google-specific metas for some things... a google-specific meta-tagging with some sorta keyword category code would be awesome. Something like '<META NAME="GOOGLEBOT" CATEGORY="250">' where '250' would be the category code for the relevant page or site content. It would add some granularity to the search, and could be easily managed for misuse.

If I do a search for 'public relations management tools' for example, I bring up a list of results to wade thru. However, if 'public relations' were a tagged category, then I could search using this tool for 'management tools' specific to the category, public relations. While I would no doubt have a big list still... they'd not include snippets like 'our public relations manager was reassigned... while the web management tools worked great for COMP121..." on a non-related .edu site.

Anyhow, my $0.02.

tbear

5:23 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I've been searching for a girlfriend and Google hasn't helped........ oh sorry, am I in the wrong forum?¿ :)

Slud

5:34 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Slightly OT, but a authorative price comparison engine would be faboo.

Pricewatch and NexTag (which seems to be trying to cop the google color-scheme) both eat.

Doesn't seem like it would be that far removed from Google catalogs (beta).

Sanenet

5:56 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Is it just me or does Google turn up a lot of discussion lists in it's results?

Sure, I appreciate the fact that discussion lists may have a lot of content in them, but EVERY time I do a specific but generic search (i.e., searching for a program to do something specific) it returns a lot of forum posts before getting to an actual page.

Anyone else noticed this? It's gotten a lot worse in the last 2 weeks or so! Or is it just me being daft with my search queries? Always a possibility!! :)

/David.

MHes

6:04 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Alby is right - Keywords in domain - Far too much importance on this. Companies with big bucks are spamming the results with targetted keywords to mini sites, and the rest of us who play the rules and have one proper site get pushed down. Google should try and identify an obvious collection of sites. In my sector, employment agents have decriptions of jobs in the domain and title, bang, they are number 1 first time in, with little content.

Morrison

6:26 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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GoogleGuy,

I'm using google.co.il in hebrew, and the main problem there is that google don't know the grammar.

examples:

1) google can't see the connaction between "table" & "tables" in herbew

2) "houses in israel" is writen in hebrew something like "houses InIsrael" and google don't know it.

Still, google.co.il is #1 SE for me and many more users, but if u can get somebody to fix this problem, that will be great.
(if u do, i promest to learn the English grammer):)

Vukovic

10:16 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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"google don't know the grammar"

that's some comical irony there :)

Beachboy

10:29 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Note to TBear:

To get a girlfriend, join AOL, create a member chat room titled: "Need a girlfriend." Works better than Google. ;)

tbear

11:00 pm on May 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

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To Beachboy......
Thanx for the tip. But I want a real one....LOL

danny

1:46 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I'm with tbear - forget about selling PageRank, there must be some more practical way to use it! Phil Greenspun's Using the Internet to Pick up Babes and/or Hunks [philip.greenspun.com] is a classic.

It has been three years since I established my Web site. That's about 1000 days. Let's say an average of 250,000 hits/day. That's 250 million hits. And I've yet to go out on a date with someone whom I met on the Internet.

This might be off-topic for this thread... but how about a Google personals service?

Danny.

wasmith

2:27 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Backwards links:

I love many of the features of google for new zealand sites try adding site:.nz or site:co.nz as one of the keywords in your search.

But backwards links have decreased in usefulness over the last year. Not only do you not get all of the results but there is no way to search for a page that links to more than one url. For example if I wanted to find pages that had a link to [npr.org...] and [jpost.com...] .

SuperSoup

2:38 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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OK How about an area off the first page that would bring up results based on different algos.. with tabs on top identifing the difftent algos,1,2,3,4 ecta. also a section where the user could customize the algo for example i would like to rank all the sites in order of most repeated word "Widget" in the text and then rely on Google to weed out the spam.. that would be really usefull especialy if there would be menny different types of combinations of algo posibilities..
All you have to do is just create other exact copies of google main computers and then when you have 4 or 5 of them all around the country just change their algos just enough that the results of each are revelent for diffrent groups of people and then present an internet page that interfaces all of the google main computers.. well id like to be a vp at google if this gets implemented Thanks. :)

wasmith

3:10 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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When i want to determine the value of a keyword/phase at a certain position in a search engine ... I turn to a ppc engine for that.

>> results based on different algos

Seems to me that would reduce the pressure from the spammers. Would not matter how it was done, regional (sites linked to or from .uk country code). Authority sites (text content) vs Authority hubs (links content) vs hubs (themed link pages). The engine that does this first in a big way (**1) is going to be cool.

**1 teoma has alread broken up their search results but the user has no selection over what they want. There are no default settings you get ppc (been done before), refine search (been done before but these are really great suggestions), results (all search engines have them), and resources (cool)

SuperSoup

3:55 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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the only problom with using PPC for my idea is that it is almost wothless for reaserch, sites thet might have excellent content to for the searcher would have no one to bid it up and might be lost

born2drv

4:03 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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tbear - do a search for "mail order brides" or "russian brides" ... you can meet some pretty hot/young russian women who speak little english, would marry anyone, and just want to come to America....

Not that I have used these services.... :)

JustTrying

4:18 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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GoogleGuy - - Here is my Google wish list:

1.Having an optional interface like Kartoo.com (with the GREAT ability to add and remove words related or not related to what you're really searching for -- which would really help in the JAVA example mentioned above) would be a dream option for Google

2. Changing the Adwords Select program so that it makes more logical sense when it comes to determining bid prices.

3. Adding a .mpeg search feature like that at Alltheweb (good for finding free quicktime tutorials).

4. Adding the ability to search by julian date.

That would be a good start...

Beachboy

4:42 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Julian must get a lot of dates.

tbear

5:03 am on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>"mail order brides" ...... just want to come to America

He he.
1/ Never paid for it in my life <thinks>How can I say that, having been married and divorced twice. FUBAR -LOL</thinks>Too much like pay per click. FOFL

2/ I live in Spain

Beachboy - LOL

<question>What am I still doing up at 7:00am floating around the wmw forum?</question>

Kari_Hoch

1:14 pm on May 23, 2002 (gmt 0)



Whenever I need a list of directory categories containing a search term, I go to dmoz.org - Google only displays one cat.
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