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No on-page optimization seems to help

     
2:05 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I've been in the sand for a while now, but still working hard at acquiring tons of links and have done a great job (#1 allinanchor).

I am stuck at around position 150 for my main keyword phrase. Last week I messed round with the layout and got rid of some duplicate links on each page that google might not have liked. Added some more page content, etc. etc. All things I thoguht google would like. End result, didn't move a spot within a week.

Is trying anything on-page while stuck in the sandbox a waste of time? I spent a good deal of time testing this with no luck.

8:17 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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No one else at all is experiencing this?

</end bump>

8:19 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Check your variance of anchor text, but mostly yes, you're in a bind if you're in the sandbox.
8:21 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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#1 allinanchor does not equate to #1 in SERPs.

What kinds of backlinks are you acquiring?

Share your domain and target search term and I'll analyze why your are not moving up in the SERPs.

Hugo
P.S. On-page optimization won't get you to the top of Google. It's a nice foundation, but you'll need focus on backlink and issues and increase the amount of relevant content on your site in order to become competitive.

8:29 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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#1 allinanchor does not equate to #1 in SERPs.

But it does help quite a bit, trust me. I believe he is just working too fast and too hard. Make some changes, wait a month to see what happens, and change more. I got myself to #19 for allinanchor: and since have moved up to page 3 on a very competitive keyword. My next change will get me a #1 allinanchor, as give me perfect keyword balance among URL, title, <h1> and <b> tags, so we'll see how much that helps me.

DS

8:31 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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never mind
8:35 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Create 10 new pages that go after the root of your term but have more words. You can go to #*$! if you can't think of any. Like if your term is widgets create great widgets, widgets in Texas whatever just 10 pages that go after the same root. Each page goes after a unique kw as long as it contains the root. Make sure the pages are at least 15% different that includes view source not just viewable. So viewable may have to be 30% different. Use the unique kw in:

h1 tag
<i>
<b>
<u>

reapat it a few times in the content. Now you have 11 new pages. On each page at the bottom put 10 links to the other pages. (ie widgets, great widgets, awsome widgets, etc...) This acomplishes several things.

Also don't worry so much about your main term. People put way to much emphasis on that. You get a much better and quicker return on going after lots of terms. I would say that 70% or more of searches are 3 words or more and/or are realy obscure short ones. I have a site that 48% of it's searches are long kw's that were only typed in once in a 30 day period. It is real easy to rank for stuff like that.

9:36 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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The ranking in allinanchor: has very little to do with anchor text.

The allin commands use a simple ranking algorithm across the board, and they just filter the results according the the "allin" attributes.

If anything, it depends *less* on how well you rank in anchor text than when google serves up actual search results.

Ranking well on an allin search is a *good thing*, but only because it shows that you have many other factors in order compared to all the other pages that pass the allin filter.

The search results are the exact same set whether you do allinanchor, allinurl or allintitle, and then they just show you the results from that set passed through the allin filter.

9:49 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Also don't worry so much about your main term. People put way to much emphasis on that. You get a much better and quicker return on going after lots of terms. I would say that 70% or more of searches are 3 words or more and/or are realy obscure short ones. I have a site that 48% of it's searches are long kw's that were only typed in once in a 30 day period. It is real easy to rank for stuff like that.

I don't understand why so few people follow this advice, especially with a new site.

Hitting those easy keyphrases gets you the traffic *now*, and sets you up to keep moving up for that main keyword.

It may not be as good for your ego as landing that #1 spot on your chosen term, but it certainly pays the bills better than being #70 on your chosen term and nowhere on any of the other terms either.

12:42 am on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Create 10 new pages that go after the root of your term but have more words.

In otherwords he's suggesting you create doorway pages, or become an SEO-spammer. Do it the right way the first time and you don't have to shift your stragegy everytime that Google performs an algo shift. Create good content, stay on your focused terms, name your pages by including keywords, but don't become a spammer.

Also don't worry so much about your main term. People put way to much emphasis on that. You get a much better and quicker return on going after lots of terms. I would say that 70% or more of searches are 3 words or more and/or are realy obscure short ones. I have a site that 48% of it's searches are long kw's that were only typed in once in a 30 day period. It is real easy to rank for stuff like that.

Now this I do agree with, however, I do not feel becoming a spammer is the proper way to target multiple keyword sets. I have reworked my entire site content to work in as many keywords as possible, while still getting my meaning across in a human readable form. My result has been a jump up in multiple result sets landing me very close to the top in all respects, even for keyword sets that I didn't target.

A little SEO and good content goes a long way with Google...

DS

5:28 am on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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10 hand made pages is not spam. They can be written in such a way to be very useful. Doorway pages do not mean spam. Most of the time they are but it is possible to not be spam. If the user finds what they are looking for then it served it's purpose. If I create 1000 pages that the only difference is that they have a different kw and the content is good and helps people that are looking for what is on the page then how is that spam. SPAM seems to mean any page that beats yours. I understand if you do that with affiliate sites but if it is your own site and you get a customer and that customer stays and is happy then it was the right thing. Do you consider job posting on a college campus spam. No becasue you know that college students are looking for jobs. If you create a bunch of doorway pages that are not about what your site is about just to get traffic then that is spam. I search G all the time for personal stuff and always find what I want. I don't see spam.
11:33 am on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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ogletree is not talking about becoming a spammer, he's talking about creating mini (sub) themes.
12:38 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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ogletree
i dont have to copy paste your message but i agree 100% with you,the ususal suspects calling someone a spammer are the ones who are mad because the never made it to the top,thats all.
5:40 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I don't think doorway pages are spammy in and of themselves. It has more to do with what is on them and there intent. Don't get me wrong I have made spam pages.
5:44 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Ogletree I think what you describe would be considered spam by Google, if all you did was add keywords to duplicated blocks of text.
6:18 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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It all depends on who you are. A lot of big players that have PR8+ sites do it. Even some of G's parters do it. The bigger you are the easier it is to get away with things. It is real easy to do if you sell things. You make a page for each product. Everyone agrees that is ok. You can make a pages for that widget in every color or offer that it works in each country. If it is electric you can make a page for each country and each page just says that it works in that country or state. I know a big site that is just another se and they rank in Google all 0ver the place because they made a link to a page that has a populer serach term already typed in. They are dynamic pages with a search string in the url. They have tons of these and G seems to have no problem with it. They are not only spamming they have their own ppc system. Which is stealing money from G/

The only thing G does not like is if you buy PR or buy a site for PR. If your backlinks are legit you can do whatever you want. I know several big sites that have doorway pages and have ranked well for years doing it.

7:14 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Being at postion 150 does not fit *my* definition of sand. :-)

At 150 you're in the game at the very least, perhaps more than you realize, and there's no reason that you can't get to number 5. Ogletree's advice should help get you there.

Also, I'd wager dollars to doughnuts that if you're high in the allin queries, and 150 in the SERP's, you're doing at least one thing that G really does *not* like. You just need to figure out what that is and correct it...feels like dup filter of some sort to me.

7:25 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I moved from 300 to 150 very slowly while acquiring backlinks.

I think I am in the sand at 150, I can't even move. I do not have duplicate content, all articles are 100% by me. I used to have 3 links to each widgets sections on my page but jsut reduced it to 1 link for each widget section, thinking google might be discounting or penalizing me on this.

This is what I have changed recently and thought it would be a big impact, apparantly google didn't care to budge.

Any suggestions?

7:35 pm on Oct 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Tens of thousands of sites are in the same boat as you. You can break out by essentially killing your domain, but otherwise you should just accept that there is nothing special about your situation and you'll be fine when Google changes this bizarre blanket policy.
6:18 am on Oct 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Hi Steveb,

What do you mean by "killing your domain."?

Prairie

12:19 pm on Oct 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

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If you do whatever it takes to rank high quickly on G you may have your domain penalized.
12:29 pm on Oct 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Is trying anything on-page while stuck in the sandbox a waste of time?

Yes, it is a waste of time. Until Google decides to update their index, we are all stuck.

5:38 am on Oct 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Not altogether a waste of time, considering that Yahoo (and MSN) can deliver a substantial amount of traffic.