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eg. KW1 KW2 in KW3
I don't understand why Google only shows me as position 170 in SERPS considering the following information regarding lack of competition:-
When I do a search for KW1 KW2 in KW3 (or KW1 KW2 KW3) I get the following:
allintitle - 78 competing sites but my site is no.1
"allintitle" - only 3 competinbg sites and I am no.1
allinanchor - 4,500 sites and I am no.1
"allinanchor" - 1 site and that is me
My homepage has a PageRank of 4 and 7 backlinks (although there are approx 70 other links not showing). I don't think I have done anything illegal!
I have the KW phrase in my title tage, description, H1 tag, high on page and further down. No. of words is approx 500 on the page.
Can anybody guide me in the right direction?
First thing first. The command allinanchor only ranks the sites based on the no. of links pointing to the sites with keyword in anchor text. This doesn't mean that if you rank 1 for your keyword using this command you'll also rank 1 during SERPS display too.
In your case all you need to do is to wait for the update. All your backword links must have been accumlated after last update and so you'll need to wait for the next update.
Ranking first for those searches will normally be a sign of a page ranking well, but sometimes sites with significant problems rank terribly even though they have these algorithmic aspects in their favor.
You can do ten things right and one hideously bad and be doomed to oblivion.
The command allinanchor only ranks the sites based on the no. of links pointing to the sites with keyword in anchor text.
Where do you get this? Google does not even document allinanchor.
But if you read what they say about allintitle, you get
If you start a query with [allintitle:], Google will restrict the results to those with all of the query words in the title. For instance, [allintitle: google search] will return only documents that have both "google" and "search" in the title.
You will notice that there is a conspicuous absence of any claim that it "ranks" according to the title in any way. They only claim that it is a filter that removes results that do not match the request.
There is absolutley no mention on what the ranking criteria is. There might actually be some critera, but it sure as hell ain't what the common perception of the command would suggest. This thread comes up far too often for that to be the case.
but it sure as hell ain't what the common perception of the command would suggest
BigDave, would you care to elaborate?
This has got me really stumped on a few websites now.
Pre-florida websites that were ranking well with the allin commands would also be doing well in the main searches. This is obviously not the case now.
BigDave, I have seen you comment on this before. I am unsure if you do know something or if all you know is that the allins mean nothing and have very little to do with serps nowadays?
I guess if you did know (and wanted to share it), you would have shared it by now.
I have played with all sorts of theories and carried out serveral experiments but come back stumped every time. :$
"9)you have hoarded your pr and have no links out using your anchor text to authority sites "
cheers,
Hughie
Where do you get this? Google does not even document allinanchor.
You are right dave. Google also doesn't document Allinsubject. This command gives a significant clue to how well you've optimized your page for a particular keyword.
The sites which are ranking high for allinanchor will definatly get a raise(if anchor frequncy is resonable and and the site doens't gets a penalty). It's only the matter of an update. But here again you never know what Google has to offer in this new update. It might come up with new algorithmic manupulations. Till now anchortext has played the most significant role.
There is no big secret, only exactly what I posted. Read what Google says the allintitle command does. Read *exactly* what they say it does. Do not add anything else in your mind to what it says that it does.
If you start a query with [allintitle:], Google will restrict the results to those with all of the query words in the title. For instance, [allintitle: google search] will return only documents that have both "google" and "search" in the title.
"Google will restrict the results" is all that it says. It does not in any way or form suggest that they will rank the results according to how it ranks on the title. Anything more than that and you are making assumptions.
To see the flaw in the assumption about the allin commands, look at intitle:
If you include [intitle:] in your query, Google will restrict the results to documents containing that word in the title. For instance, [intitle:google search] will return documents that mention the word "google" in their title, and mention the word "search" anywhere in the document (title or no). Note there can be no space between the "intitle:" and the following word.Putting [intitle:] in front of every word in your query is equivalent to putting [allintitle:] at the front of your query: [intitle:google intitle:search] is the same as [allintitle: google search].
Here we can see that they do a search on "search" and they restrict the set to those that have "google" in the title.
The difference is that the allin commands do not allow you to add any other search terms for the algo to use in ranking algo to use. We do not know what the ranking is based on and Google does not tell us.
For example, it could very easly be that a search on [allintitle:fred] is the equivalent of a search [intitle:fred fred] where the pages are ranked according to a general search on "fred" and then limited to those with "fred" in the title. This is in fact very different than stating that the document has the best "fred" in the title.
In fact, allintitle is the best example to show you how stupid the whole idea that you are ranked according to that supposed factor.
Search on [allintitle:untitled]
Do you see the problem here? How are these ranked according to which "untitled" document is the most "untitled" in their title?
It should not be surprising when the allin commands fail to match the search results for a specific term, it should be surprising how often they do match.
This command gives a significant clue to how well you've optimized your page for a particular keyword.
Actually, as should be obvious, I do not agree. And given how often this subject comes up, it would seem the anecdotal evidence is on my side. If you do a google search on [allinanchor] you will see the same discussion on thousands of pages.
Google ranks the pages on allin commands by some method. I just do not believe that the common conception for how the results are ranked is correct.
Google only displays links with PR4 and higher.
I wish people would stop posting this stuff because it just is not true! :(
Google only displays links with PR4 and higher.
I wish people would stop posting this stuff because it just is not true! :(
The original poster put this comment in bold, so I will put mine in bold: rubbish & ditto what sem4u said
"Google will restrict the results" is all that it says. It does not in any way or form suggest that they will rank the results according to how it ranks on the title. Anything more than that and you are making assumptions.
It doesn't suggest a lot of things.
But it seems to me it would be very odd for the allin results to have no relationship to the normal serps.
FWIW, the "allin" results for my keywords are basically the same as the "normal" serps plus one or two new sites. Forgive me for assuming there is more than coincidence at work here.
the "allin" results for my keywords are basically the same as the "normal" serps plus one or two new sites
I am seeing the same thing with some websites that I help run, but not all websites and that is the thing that confuses me.
It seems that new websites are nearly always affected by the "allin syndrome" and some websites that I watch that are 2-3 years old suffer with the same. Yet other websites of the same age (2-3 years) are pretty balanced out with the allin rank being the same as the normal serps.
We know generally that incoming links count in normal SERPs, and this is what we check by doing an allinanchor search anyway. We also know that keywords in title are important, and this we check by an allintitle: search.
In normal circumstances, sites which rank tops for allinanchor and allintitle are pretty much tops in normal SERPs too. The original poster's question was to the exception that he has noticed.
Pre-Florida, it was almost a given (for me!) that if I am tops for the allin:searches, I would be tops in normal SERPs. Nowadays other factors seem to be in play.
We run several sites and the only ones not doing well (one of these is PR6) do not yet have their DMOZ entry.
We have been monitoring someone else in our industry using Hitwise - he has a basic site, not the best "optimisation", content or structure and yet he has fantastic entries due to 5 DMOZ entries.
I see identical results with numerous sites. DMOZ listings thrive, other websites dive....
I know its not the content or structure of the site because I switched URLs for an old site that still has a DMOZ entry and it went straight in the top 10 for most phrases.
Hi Hughie,
what i am trying to say is that perhaps a site which ranks no#1 in allinanchor but ranks very poorly in the serps is either under optimised or overoptimised in other areas that make up Google algo.In no#9,The one about hoarding pr,I am suggesting that though the site may have many inbound anchor text links for a keyword but if there are none of these are from any authority sites and hardly any from related on topic sites then google will then expect that site to have outbound links of its own going to authority sites.
I think google likes non-authority sites to have links to authority sites.Just because a site is no#1 in allinanchor for a certain kw doesnt mean its an authority on the subject.
Of course I am only guessing.
I would like to answer the questions regarding my site:-
1. The site is 8 months old.
2. The 80 links have been built up over the last 2/3 months. But Google crawls my site every 2-3 days and adds new pages fairly quickly and a couple of other pages rank in the top 20.
3. Other suggested reasons were:-
a) You are in the sandbox. I don't have any knowledge of this?
b) Your links are all from a limited number of sites. Nope, 90% are from different sites.
c) You have another site that is scoring well for the same KWs. Nope, I only have one site.
d) You are competing with good authority sites. Possible, but only 4-5 authority sites, which means I should still be in the top 20.
e) You have overspammed the anchor text. Unlikely. I have used different KW phrases, although do use 2 or 3 of my KWs in each anchor.
f) The anchor text is not on your page. Possible problem? The anchor text is NOT on my home page (although the KW phrase is int he title, H1, high up on page etc).
g) You have little content. Nope, I have (what i consider to be useful, informative content).
h) The links are from a nest. No.
i) You have hoarded your PR and have no links out using your anchor text to authority sites. i think my PR is well spread out amongst the pages. However, I don't have any links out to authority sites, although my Links pages do have many links to reasonable quality travel-related sites.
j) You have a minor penalty for some infringement. Maybe?
k) Duplicate content. Nope.
4. I do not have an entry in DMOZ.
I think I understand that even if my site/page ranks as no.1 in the "allin" commands then it does not necessarily mean that I will be no.1 in SERPS. But I would have thought that I would be somewhere near the top 20, especially for such an uncompetitive KW phrase?
As I am no.1 in allinanchor then that would be a good thing, right?
I don't know if it is etiquette to ask, but would anybody be willing to take a look at my site to try to guide me on how to rank a bit better? I have spent a considerable amount of time and effort in making the site useful for surfers and yet I cannot rank well for my main KW phrase! Maybe I should give up?
Thanks.
Keep adding content
Keep building links
Keep waiting
Based on what you've said above, give it a lot of time & don't give up.
With the sites we're building now, I'm hoping for traffic by January - not earlier.
J
Very interesting point. So it's about spreading the love in the right places when it comes to links ;-)
Cheers Hugh
Are you sure that allinanchor doesn't return results in the order of which have the most inbounds with whichever keywords follow the :?
It seems it does to me, however, it seems to count your own links and obviously if you have tons of pages and a sitewide link from some other domain with thousands of pages using that text you'll outrank sites that are probably killing you in the SERPs because they have 50 or so quality links...
So, from my narrow investigation it seems to accurately do what it seems it would, however it cannot be used as a (very) effective tool to predict future ranking unless you are building links to a page that doesn't have any similarity to what I described in paragraph 2.
Still, there are MANY other factors that are going to pretty much nullify this command's use on the surface. If you do thourough inspection of competition and take many things into account it's possible this could be helpful.
