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Has Google (and SEs in general) killed creativity?

Have to have related keywords.

         

IITian

12:46 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am looking at a few nice Haikus and Western poetry to be put at the top of my webpages. Have a couple already put on pages including the index page. Since these don't contain any keywords related to the terms I am trying to optimize my site for, I am afraid they will lead me to lose my serp placement.

In pre-SE days, people could write love poems without even using the word 'love' even one. It would have been understood. But to understood by Google, we have to title it 'Love Love Love' and sprinkle a few of these in the text of the poetry and don't even forget to get a few anchor texts containing it.

Has Google killed natural writing?

whiterabbit

9:14 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi IITian

If you put the prose you want into iframes, these won't affect the keyword density or any other 'on-page' factors, as they are 'invisible' to the SE bots.

SEO practitioners have killed creativity & natural writing, not SE's, but, we can be more creative in the methods we use to include natural writing in our pages.

Tony

trillianjedi

10:43 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Far more important factors in google:-

1. Keyword anchor text in the inbound links (and your internal site structure)
2. Page Titles

I really wouldn't worry too much about keyword density in the main page text. Use a good heading in an H1 tag with your keyword in there, and perhaps a descriptive paragraph before the main content also with your keyword.

That first paragraph is, in my experience, the most important in terms of on-page text factors.

The content which has no keywords in the text can then follow.

TJ

bpresent

10:52 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)



your internal site structure

Can you be more precise please (or point me to a thread) or do you just mean a decent site map etc?

trillianjedi

10:57 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Sorry I could have been more clear. I was referring to your internal site links and their associated anchor text.

For example, rather than:-

Click <link>here</link> for blue widgets.

Use your own internal anchors with keywords:-

<link>Blue Widgets</link>

A site map is always a good idea, and plenty of opportunity to put some keyword variation in your anchor text also.

Personally, I always put some content in my site-maps (descriptive paragraphs for each section) so they are something other than simply a page of links.

TJ

bpresent

11:19 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)



Me too - just checking I hadn't missed the latest and greatest technique :)

glengara

11:30 am on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



*Has Google killed natural writing?*

No, if anything, the use of Semantics by G will encourage it......

ignatz

12:00 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Has Google killed natural writing?

There isn't much that can kill creativity, but greed can stifle it.

rfgdxm1

2:03 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>In pre-SE days, people could write love poems without even using the word 'love' even one. It would have been understood. But to understood by Google, we have to title it 'Love Love Love' and sprinkle a few of these in the text of the poetry and don't even forget to get a few anchor texts containing it.

So years ago had I put up a page with a love poem I wrote that nowhere on it appeared the word "love" I'd get page 1 of the SERP for "love"?

BigDave

6:20 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



There isn't much that can kill creativity, but greed can stifle it.

Bingo!

It isn't google that is stifling creativity, but your own greed to be in the top of Google's SERPs.

It is your choice to make. You could put up your webpage with all the text in a giant .jpeg, and google will not rank you that well. Google isn't killing your creativity, you do your thing, and they do theirs.

satanclaus

7:17 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)



If anything they've encouraged people to develop creative ways to manipulate their listings.

IITian

9:58 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>If anything they've encouraged people to develop creative ways to manipulate their listings.

:) I like this one. SEOs are the most creative.

However, to repeat the point I was trying to make, is that almost everything most of us do on our websites is for the purpose of ranking well. When I visit a site, it generally takes me a few seconds to realize where SEO techniques have been in work. I think most of you are better than me in spotting SEO techniques at work.

We look at Overture lists and put variations of relevant keywords on our pages based on their popularities. The most commonly misspelled forms are intentionally introduced as typos. If word s1 is the best choice from literary point of view but is searched only once a day, it is bound to be replaced by its synonym s1, not that correct but searched a million times a day, and so on. Thus we are restricted by Overture, Wordtracker, Adwords or what not and cannot be totally free in writing what we want. This restricts our 'creativity.'

For the commercial pages with titles "Buy kw1 kw2 and sell kw1 kw2s" instead of "Buy and Sell kw1 kw2s" to unnatural language all over, it seems like English language has been replaced by Googlish.

DerekH

10:34 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



For the commercial pages with titles "Buy kw1 kw2 and sell kw1 kw2s" instead of "Buy and Sell kw1 kw2s" to unnatural language all over, it seems like English language has been replaced by Googlish.

"Googlish" doesn't generate that many hits on a search, so I'm not that worried...

I take your point, but, returning to the thread, what kills creativity is web page authors not being creative.
No more, no less.

If creative becomes popular, popular will become high SERPS.

Many people's mistake is to try to miss out the middle step, and then to wail about it when they don't succeed.

DerekH

BigDave

11:52 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



is that almost everything most of us do on our websites is for the purpose of ranking well.

Only if by "most of us", you mean most of us here on webmaster world. Even with commercial sites, I would be surprised if the majority of them even know how much traffic they get. I still see commercial site that run hit counters on the different pages.

ignatz

1:47 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You guys have all seen that dude in the Tron suit right? That's what I call creative. Imagine the traffic and rankings that page has now. It's an extreme example, but I bet the guy wasn't thinking about SEO when he made that page.. or maybe he did, and we better all get out the sewing machines ;)

Patrick Taylor

2:29 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Can't see the problem if one is truly creative. It just means that your needs-to-be-read love poem (which doesn't mention the word "love") is built into a love-page in all other respects - double-creativity: the "love" kind and the "look-at-me" kind.

goodroi

4:51 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The use of anchor text helps ensure that people can use natural language and still be found. Also as other people stated as Google uses Semantic technology it will help.

I would speculate that very few search terms are even impacted by what we are talking about. Because only the comptetive terms that are profitable become heavily optimized and competitive. However it is this very small set of keywords that we are looking at and making generalizations. Money terms kill natural language for the money terms but all the other terms are fine.