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I belive that it has been penalized by Google and has been blocked from passing PR. My reasoning for this goes this way ...
(Let's assume the url of the directory to be [url.com...] )
1) When I access [url.com,...] my google toolbar shows that it has a pagerank of 8. But when I open the directory as [url.com,...] it shows a pagerank of 0.
2) Though the main page has a PageRank of 8, all the other first level pages (the category pages in the directory) show a pagerank of ZERO.
The fact that the google toolbar doesn't show a grey bar in the PageRank position for these pages suggest that they have indeed been indexed.
Than why are the pages having a PR of zero?
3) I picked out 5 sites listed in the directory at random and checked thier backlinks and PR. None of the site shows url.com as thier backlink.
But when I do a Google search of the same sites to find out how many sites contain thier url, url.com is listed. This implies that Google has indeed indexed the category pages and found the link.
Why is it than refusing to consider a link in the category page as a link?
Please tell me if my reasoning based on these assumptions are right.
4) Some of the links to url.com have been bought.
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Disclaimer : I am an amatuer.
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[edited by: Marcia at 11:48 pm (utc) on May 28, 2004]
> 1) When I access [url.com,...] my google toolbar shows that it has a pagerank of 8. But when I open the directory as [url.com,...] it shows a pagerank of 0.
This is pretty common and is because the backlinks to the site contain the "www" part?
> 2) Though the main page has a PageRank of 8, all the other first level pages (the category pages in the directory) show a pagerank of ZERO.
The sub pages could be new or the site is not passing PR to the pages by hiding the links to the sub pages from the search engines.
> The fact that the google toolbar doesn't show a grey bar in the PageRank position for these pages suggest that they have indeed been indexed.
Not true, A page with 0 PR and not grayed out doesn't mean that it has been indexed by Google. To check if the page is indexed just do a search for [site.com...]
> 3) I picked out 5 sites listed in the directory at random and checked thier backlinks and PR. None of the site shows url.com as thier backlink.
In general if the page a link is on has a PR of less than 4 it will not show up when using link: . Of course the link won't show up either if the page isn't indexed.
> 4) Some of the links to url.com have been bought
Anyone buying links on a page with 0 PR just because the site home page has a PR of 8 needs to get their brain checked.
P.S.
How do you make those boxed quotes that i see?
1) When I access [url.com,...] my google toolbar shows that it has a pagerank of 8. But when I open the directory as [url.com,...] it shows a pagerank of 0.This is pretty common and is because the backlinks to the site contain the "www" part?
Agreed. I am aware of this. The fact is, The owner of the directory is not only a very good SEO, but also runs a successful web hosting company. I find it hard to belive that he would make such a mistake of not redirecting url.com to www.url.com ... Anyway, any idea how I can verify if [url.com...] has been redirected to [url.com...] ...
2) Though the main page has a PageRank of 8, all the other first level pages (the category pages in the directory) show a pagerank of ZERO.The sub pages could be new or the site is not passing PR to the pages by hiding the links to the sub pages from the search engines.
Agree that perhaps the site pages might be new. But than, if its main page has been assigned a PR of 8, somehow I find it hard to belive that the directory owner would start a linking campaign to get high PR without making sure his directory was ready. Perhaps a few of the category pages could be assumed to be new. But all ...?
Also, the fact that he worked very hard on his linking campaigns to get a good PR also debunks the theory that the site is purposefully not passing PR ...
Again, even if a page is new, won't it still retain its old PR until its old PR is updated ... afterall, PR is depended upon links and not content ... so if I have a page index.html with 10 links and later update the content of index.html, I still have the 10 links pointing to it ...
3) I picked out 5 sites listed in the directory at random and checked thier backlinks and PR. None of the site shows url.com as thier backlink.In general if the page a link is on has a PR of less than 4 it will not show up when using link: . Of course the link won't show up either if the page isn't indexed.
As I mentioned before, the directory has a PageRank of 8. So doesn't it mean that it should definitely show? As I also pointed out in my original post, the pages have been indexed. So why is Google ignoring the directory link?
4) Some of the links to url.com have been boughtAnyone buying links on a page with 0 PR just because the site home page has a PR of 8 needs to get their brain checked.
:) ... Jokes apart, what I meant was that the directory url.com has bought links to increase thier PageRank ...
Make a box:
Is done like this:
[qu0te]Make a box[/qu0te]
(just replace the "0" with "o")
[webmasterworld.com...]
Now to get this post back on course...
Other dude, not sure if the site is penalized with the info you have. As I am sure you know, there could be many reasons why a site appears to be penalized but really isn't.
Maybe the subpages are just new and don't have updated PR yet?
Again, if you were starting a directory, wouldn't you make sure that your directory was up and running before promoting it and starting a link campaign? In that case, if the main page has been given PR of 8, isn't it safe to assume the category pages also would have been given some PR.
Even if the category pages have now been updated, wouldn't it still retain the old PR? Afterall, PR doesn't depend on content, but on the links to a page.
Again, if you were starting a directory, wouldn't you make sure that your directory was up and running before promoting it and starting a link campaign? In that case, if the main page has been given PR of 8, isn't it safe to assume the category pages also would have been given some PR.
I would, but I've also received probably hundreds of offers from brand new directories to link swap with them or submit my site when they have white bar PR and an Alexa rank in the millions. Maybe they're new to the game?
Even if the category pages have now been updated, wouldn't it still retain the old PR? Afterall, PR doesn't depend on content, but on the links to a page.
My point was that maybe those directory pages didn't exist before at all. They may have just recently been created because of a design or theme change.
Maybe they're new to the game?
Nopes. The owner of the directory is a very experienced search engine optimizer. The directory is quite new and already has a PageRank of 8 ... That speaks of the man's experience ...
My point was that maybe those directory pages didn't exist before at all. They may have just recently been created because of a design or theme change.
A very valid point. Is there any way to find out the age of the the indexed directory pages in Google's cache?
1. "Google has penalized the sub-directories/categories and prevents them from passing PR?"
2. "The fact that the google toolbar doesn't show a grey bar in the PageRank position for these pages suggest that they have indeed been indexed."
3. "None of the site shows url.com as thier backlink. But when I do a Google search of the same sites to find out how many sites contain thier url, url.com is listed. This implies that Google has indeed indexed the category pages and found the link."
4. "Some of the links to url.com have been bought."
You have a lot of questions/satements mixed in with your assumptions, if I'm reading this right. You also in subsequent posts seem to know some of the mechanisms of the webmaster's strategies and question his intentions....based on your assumptions.
I think BMach hit most of it.
1. Highly unlikely: Google is just starting to roll out joeant, gimpsy and jayde listings (if you're paying close attention, joeant doing best)and these are pretty good sized human edited directories who have been plugging away for quite awhile. I've seen new directories come and go but it takes a long time for all of the categories and subs and sub subs..to pick up any PR. The above examples are just finally migrating some PR that can help after checking backlinks and just by going through them with the toolbar turned on over the past yr 1/2.
2. Usually correct but forget about the toolbar in a case of certainty, go to the page in question and copy the URL and paste it in Google search and you'll find out if it's indexed.
3. I think BMach is right on here too. And I would add that a search like @www.url.com will reveal that a link has been indexed or is listed on a given page where a link:www.url.com search will give you the results BMach alluded to. As I said above the PR migration in a serious directory seems very slow whereas I have seen mini-directories (if you want to call them that) that can behave the way you are describing by clever jscript..cgi to hide pages from Google (not saying this is the case) and never pass on any value to anything but the main page which may have it's own agenda?
4. Is a statement not an assumption and if you buy the right links you may or in some cases not, get the PR bump you want. I guess he did since they're probably to his main page. You mentioned that he is an expert SEO, you sound like you know him?
So I find three assumptions and a lot of questions and second guessing regarding Google who we know is unfathomable at the moment and the intention and methods of the webmaster/owner/SEO.
There is really nothing to "tear apart" or "debunk" as other posters have anwered all questions that are answerable and your assumptions lead where? They are assumptions, I think there are three in between the statements and questions and you've received the best comments on I can think of, and to your questions as well. You may be in this directory and paid for a listing, who knows what drives your research? You may be the directory SEO and want feedback? If you feel bad about listing with a new paid directory or a link from a main category and got popped because the PR isn't showing, get out when your agreement expires or be patient, if it's the real deal it will help more as time passes. You have already nailed it down as being indexed and pages being indexed, so if you were listed on that page and it shows in an allinurl search @www.url.com for your site and it's there (url.com) helping to a fractional degree. It's just not yet (or maybe never) weighted heavily enough for Google to give listed sites noticeable PR boost or higher SERPS yet. There's an awfully complex stew that Google's using for pages "served up" in their results and they seem to keep changing as we go along. Getting a highly "listed" site is a lot more than getting a PR6 or 7 anymore, I see them all the time sitting under a heap of PR0-5 sites. Just my $.02
