Keyword in ALT

Is this legitimate?

[Wired Suzanne]

I search this competitive keyword (700 searches per day in Google, 880000 results) and find a website on #3.

This site has 9 backward links, only from their own domain. According to Brett's tool, the keyword density is 41%. I can find this keyword only a few times on the site. However, when I 'view source', I see that the keyword is hidden as ALT text in every image.

SPAM or smart? Copy or despise?

[Marcia]

It sounds very familiar Suzanne, does it happen to have my name on it? ;)

I've got a new site like that, with only 2 inbound links just now showing up. Until this past week it was only the other 9 pages on the site that showed in the index.

There can very possibly be links that exist that we just don't see reflected yet when we look at Google.

The repetition in the alt tags is nothing to get ruffled about. I've got graphics pages with thumbnails of backgrounds, and the word "background" is in all 12 of them. What else could they be called, when that's what they are?

Seriously, it's not so much density as number of occurrences. Very short pages can have a very high density and still be legitimate. And if it's a well-constructed, user-friendly site it could be benefitting from intuitive internal text navigation.

>>Copy or despise?

Neither. We should just do pages in whatever way is appropriate for the page and the site; that's what works best.

[Powdork]

Also, the alt text isn't indexed unless it is iwthin the <a href> tag. However, it is indexed even if the link is just to a larger image rather than an actual page.

[Wired Suzanne]

How can you have 101 words on a page, out which 56 are the keyword?
Anyway, it looks ok when I lread it in IE.

However, when I read this page with Linux, I can see the keyword everywhere.
So it is ok to name every image 'green widgets'. Even the background images?

[MonkeeSage]

People with screenreaders might start wondering why the page is (seemingly) randomly saying "green widgets" every few minutes. ;)

Jordan

[Wired Suzanne]

Yes, people might wonder that.
But what about search engines?

I think this is dangarous. It is a classical form of SPAM, right?

[Powdork]

It is ineffective unless within the link. Given that, it is a very bad practice in that the alt tags are suppose to be to describe the picture for text browsers as well as for the visually impaired. And yeah, for the rest of us it looks bad when we hover on it. When I'm looking at a blue widget or a green wodget and the alt text says green widget I tend to wonder about the care that went into the site, and therefore the business.

[Wired Suzanne]

In another site I found a density of 15% of keyword1keyword2keyword3. When I search for this term on the website, I can't find it. Searching in 'view source' I'm not able to find it either. Even not with linux.

How is it possible that the search engines and Brett's tool can find it at least 4 times?

[Powdork]

Searching in 'view source' I'm not able to find it either. Even not with linux.

I wasn't aware the code would look different if I used konqueror's view source.;)

[Hardwood Guy]

Marcia:

"The repetition in the alt tags is nothing to get ruffled about."

Thanks for your insight. I was beginning to get concerned about this after spending some considerable time adding them the past week. Amaizing how those little buggers get seen in google. Haven't checked other SE's on it though.

[GranPops]

As an aside on checking KW density..

A page with 493 words and a keyword 8 times.

Checker 1 says 28.69 %
Checker 2 says 22.34 %
Checker 3 says 16.87 %
Checker 4 says 1.62 %

Which checker are you guys using?
Checker 1 is the one that is continuously mentioned here in WW.

[jbinbpt]

If I may take the question in a different direction ….

Does using the keyword in the ALT tags help Google index the images?

If not, how does Google index the images?

jb

[HitProf]

Suzanne,

In my experience Brett's tool is always a bit high on keyword density. Besides, it still includes the img alt-tag which Google doesn't anymore. In other words: high density alt tags have become rather useless.

Another nice tool with a bit more flexibility is here: [ranks.nl...]

[Marcia]

I really have to qualify. I'm not *thrilled* with repeated use of the same keywords if it gives the appearance of being overdone. It's a lot different on a free graphics page with little choice that'll never get scrutinized than it is for an ecom or promotional type site that could be gone over with a fine-tooth comb just looking for something to pick at.

I remember the first time I really noticed repetition on a site. It was in the top navigation of a site and had search engine keyword1, keyword2, keyword3 repeated over and over in every link, each time using a different word last but the first two words all the same. I DID go looking further and didn't have a positive impression of the person's site at all.

Being on the conservative side, even if there's no penalty in question it's a matter of feeling at ease with it. I wouldn't call someone else doing certain things necessarily dodgy, but that doesn't mean I'd do it. There's just a certain level of what people are personally comfortable doing.

There is a difference between personal choice and opinion and staying within search engine guidelines.

[Hardwood Guy]

Does using the keyword in the ALT tags help Google index the images?

I don't know about having the images showing up in google images but google seems to pick it up fairly quickly for search phrases. I'm noticing some decent traffic to my photo galleries with thumbnail images. Unfortunately many spend too much time in the galleries and don't go elsewhere on that particlular visit.

Have to work on that:)

[Harwich]

"Also, the alt text isn't indexed unless it is iwthin the <a href> tag. However, it is indexed even if the link is just to a larger image rather than an actual page."

I would like to get some clarification on this comment.
Are you sayint the alt should be in the actual <a> tag such as
<a href="www.mysite.com" alt="keyword">

I didn't realize that the <a> tag supported the alt attribute.
or do you mean the image tag with the alt has to be in the <a> tag such as:

<a href="www.mysite.com" alt="keyword"><img src=/imgage.jpg alt="keyword></a>

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain exactly which way they mean, I may have wasted a lot of time doing my alt keywords wrong.

Thank You
Harwich

[ronin]

Harwich>

alt is a property of the image tag not the anchor tag.
Rest assured you won't need to spend hours recoding. >;->

[Powdork]

Harwich,
What I meant to say is that the image must be a link for the alt text to be indexed by Google.

Does using the keyword in the ALT tags help Google index the images?

Google does not index images, unless your referring to the images index. Having the image as a link helps Google index the alt text.

[Hardwood Guy]

Har:

You got it right. I may have to spend more time on that site lookin' at all them purty ladies...hehe.

[Harwich]

Ronin,

Thank You. That is what I thought, but I have been wrong before.

Powdork,

Thank you for clarifiying that, sorry I did not pick it up from you original message.

Hardwood_guy,

Thanks for the confirmation... look all you like ;-)

Thanks again all of you for clearing up my confusion.

Harwich.

[Marval]

Having the alt tag on the image wheter linked or not, will give Google the terms it uses when indexing the image for its imagebot. Thats what gets the results in the image search. A good example I have always used (cant post it) is the logo to one of my sites....it has an alt tag, 3 words and gets indexed regularly in the image search with no links associated with it.(its not within a href)

On linked thumbnails going to full size pictures, I have found that the text (again only 2 or 3 descriptive words) in the link does get indexed and used in ranking in the SERPs, although the weighting isnt the same as some other on-page/off-page factors. I believe that since it is within the usability standards it would continue to be used, however there are probably some limits on repitition within the same alt tag, and number of words/phrases for the spam reasons mentioned.

[Wired Suzanne]

So, the summarize:
Even if I would name every image MYKEYWORD, Google doesn't pick this up in their keyword density check?
But if I would buy an advertisement on the #1 site of MYKEYWORD and give the banner the ALT text MYKEYOWRD, than it would certainly help me.

Then I still do not understand how my example (msg#1) is ranked so high....

[Josefu]

...that's a good question - alt repetition. My site has a window surrounded by a gilded frame cut into eight sections (4 corners, sides, etc), and at first I gave every section a "Frame" alt. I did a robot sim tour to see what mister googlebot would see, and I got frame, frame, frame, etc... pretty silly. I don't sell frames so I yanked the ALT's.

[Powdork]

Wired Suzanne

But if I would buy an advertisement on the #1 site of MYKEYWORD and give the banner the ALT text MYKEYOWRD, than it would certainly help me.

Yes, that would help you, but we're talking about the alt text on YOUR pages helping YOU in the serps because the image is a link, even if only to a larger picture or another site.

[Wired Suzanne]

Thanks Powdork, I was getting confused here.

The internal links on my page used to be images with an ALT text. Then I changed it into text links in order to be more search engine friendly. That is correct, right?

If I would give an ALT text to my thumbnails, will it be beneficial for the page on which the thumbnail is, or for the enlarged image?

btw, I do not really care for my images to be indexed, unless that improves the ranking of the pages of course....

[Powdork]

Now it seems you've got it.:)

Some people get good businees from their images in the image index. I get lots of non relevant traffic.

[Hardwood Guy]

Even if I would name every image MYKEYWORD, Google doesn't pick this up in their keyword density check?

No expert by any means but that sounds spooky. As mentioned by someone, the tags should be useful to the reader. I don't see repitition as being helpful. In trying to gain a move up in the serps on a few two and three word phrases, I've recently placed alt tags on two different link images that are seen on every page to see if that helps...only time will tell I suppose.

Opposite of Wired_Suzanne's thought but used for a different purpose.