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My Competitor is Buying Page Rank!

What do I do now?

     
11:55 am on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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A widget competitor of mine has bought text link advertising on a major non-widget related site with a PR of 8 or 9 on most pages.

As a result he is number one for most serach to do with his company.

Is this fair?

11:58 am on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>fair

Depends on the SE's definition of fair and maybe the SERP viewers idea?

How do you actually know they are buying pagerank, lots of PR8/9 sites sell advertising space? Good branding being linked to from a high PR site too ;)

IMHO I'd worry less about fairness and if the G algo kicks the site out, you have an answer :)

11:59 am on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Its obvious - its a completely unrealted site!
12:07 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I vote fair. Your competitiors can spend their money however they want on advertising.

Tor

12:08 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Its obvious - its a completely unrealted site!

Fox News sells text links on their homepage and they have a PR of 8. You might call this an unrelated site to your widgets site too .., but there is nothing unethical in advertising your business.

12:10 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Netnerd: how do you determine if PR was sold or ad space? And where is the line?
If the sites in question are naive enough to publish details saying a link on our PR8 page soandso costs so much, than the case is clear. What if they don't?
Ads on unrelated sites are absolutely the norm on the web.
Links are getting traded since day one. Only the currency changes.
12:10 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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SO i could equally just buy space on those sites and it would be ok?
12:11 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Fox News sells text links on their homepage

Wow they're real text links not through a redirect. What's something like that cost? theonion uses text links for advertising too but it's through a redirect script.

Text pulls like crazy!

Tor

12:11 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Yes!
12:13 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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SO i could equally just buy space on those sites and it would be ok?

Just as ok as a competitor buying a larger yellow page ad or billboard space right down the road from your business.

Tor

12:16 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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What's something like that cost?

Quite expensive, many would say. Sticky me if you need more info.

12:18 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>SO i could equally just buy space on those sites and
>it would be ok?

If Site X, regardless of its PR, has a text link ad for sale, and you have the funds to pay for that advertisement, and expending your ad dollars on such a text link ad makes good business sense to you, it's ok. Of course, that's true irrespective of whether your competitor is or is not purchasing a text based ad from Site X.

12:47 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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If your competitor has gotten links from a site that advertises its selling of high Pageranked links, purely for Pagerank, then the answer from Google would probably be that your competitor will regret to pay a lot of money for acquiring Pagerank. Reality for the short term might be different.

Meanwhile you can start (buying) links from the likes of Yahoo.

Google even describes getting listed in Yahoo on their following page: [google.com...]

12:50 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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The beneifts of being #1 SERP must be more than the cost of the adlinks (or they'd not do it).

Your action is already costed and worked out then... YOU can get to be #1 by paying for the adlinks, and come out in profit.

12:55 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I know it is a good investment for them - i just had hoped that goolge would implement some sort of relevancy algo.
12:56 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Sure it's fair.

Some people still see an ad/link on another site as a way to advertise and possibly bring in more traffic or increase awareness of their site or product.

What's "not fair" is the people who see these links as nothing but a way to manipulate their PR.

If they're buying space on an unrelated site, than they're short changing themselves. It's much more effective to buy space on a related site... which would be advertising to a more friendly market -and- serve to help PR.

1:06 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>What do I do now?

Buy text ads. It's been a good exploit for months now.

To quote toolman (Jan update thread [webmasterworld.com])

"Once again buying text links wins the game."

1:09 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Very Fair!
There are SERPS companies out there that can get you to the top if you PAY them enough.
Your competitor is using a legitimate and known way to boost his placement. Until google decides this is not legitimate, which will never happen, then fair is fair.
1:15 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I was casually reading this and I became aware of the term relevancy algorithm.

We all seem to think that the search engines are there to return relevant search results. Wrong. if they did this they'd be like Pets.com (dead).

The search engines have to make money and that means that they allow things like advertising on their pages. It also means that undertaking large complex development projects like the one that would be required to determine relevancy of pages to the Nth degree will not be done unless there are ROI implications.

If people stopped using Google then they might consider that their "search results" were a problem. However it is mainly people trying to place their products that have an issue with Google. Hence the growth in links as a currency.

I see no sign of this stopping soon. Basically its a case of (a) join in or (b) just concentrate on making your business the best it can be and working out new ways to get customers in.

1:26 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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What's stopping you from using the same tactics? If you bought text ads on a RELATED site with high PR, you'd reap the same benefits, as well as targeted traffic.
1:26 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I guess i ll have to buy links!
1:32 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I know it is a good investment for them - i just had hoped that goolge would implement some sort of relevancy algo.

A Google rep has announced this in Boston (PubConf 4). Let's see when and how this will happen...

1:33 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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hi netnerd, you can do it in that way. Nobody knows that the webmasters put your text link on their sites free or you bought it. I think this activity also can be called "Internet Marketing". lol
1:38 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I would htink that lots of sites would not get the ROI from this strategy. Being number one versus number 3 might not be worth that overhead. Add in the time delay until you know if it worked out ROI wise and I think lots of smaller players would avoid the biggest PR sites on a cost basis.
1:40 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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i have one competitor whose got good pr yet he has a link from just one site...an advert ....and thats 8000 links from every page of wunderground.com!
1:46 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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What's wrong with advertising and getting some Page Rank in the process. It adds to your ROI. Something like Foxnews gets millions of visitors a month. Add in the Page Rank and it's not a bad deal.

Getting some Page Rank is a great selling point for the site selling the ads. Don't forget this is business not a game of tag. I hope the new Algo keeps it in.

Tor

1:50 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Add in the Page Rank and it's not a bad deal.

The prices are not that bad at all considering the volume of exposure you get on that particular site.

1:57 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Can someone point where to buy PRs?
Thanks
2:03 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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urr sorry
2:37 pm on May 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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The beneifts of being #1 SERP must be more than the cost of the adlinks (or they'd not do it). Your action is already costed and worked out then... YOU can get to be #1 by paying for the adlinks, and come out in profit.

A little off topic. I used the exact same logic for adwords. I gave it a try and just can not see how the are making money. I tried it as an affilaite and I would have to convert close to 50% to break even. The people with the top spots must be the suppliers with much cheaper product cost. I'm starting to believe buying text link advertisements is the way to go.

 

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