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I'm the webmaster of a website with a big pagerank. I'm often asked by other websites that want to have a link on my pages. Sometimes, those websites do not have the same language...
Before, links were made for the users and now they are here for google.
I think that this situation is due to the view of the pagerank in the google toolbar. With this tool, webmasters are only focused on their pagerank (even if the view is not precise).
I propose (do not shoot me) the end of the pagerank in the googlebar to reduce the crazy interest for this.
I would like your opinion about that. What is the interest of viewing the pagerank in the googlebar unless destroying google's algo.
In any case, there's no need to judge a site by its PR in the Google toobar. The most accurate way of making a judgment is to look at what's on the page.
Absolutely, and I'm sure that's the way most website users look at it.
Being able to look at PR is a useful means of finding out a reason for your positioning in SERPS, if all other obvious reasons are not apparent.
I don't think that the google toolbar has been as succesful as google intended it to be, in terms of being a gauge for users. It's turned out to be a tool for web developers instead.
But it does affect the SERPS and as long as that remains the case, I like it being there for all to see and analyze.
TJ
I think there are two main reasons for Google to have the visual PR display.
First reason: brillant marketing tool. Nobody can really escape the spell of this contest.
Second reason: it demonstrates and solidifies Google's ambition to structure and regulate the web. It's like with the cache: it googliefies the web.
To me more than anything else it's a brillant marketing concept.
brillant marketing tool
Marketing to whom? I would be shocked if more than 1 out of every 10,000 Google users have ever even heard of PageRank. I would guess that the vast majority of Google searchers don't even know the toolbar is available, let alone use it. If it's a marketing tool, it's only marketing to webmasters and SEOs.
Google's success is due to their SERPs, not PageRank marketing. Their situation now is that displaying PR (which I don't think is a very brilliant marketing tool) is having serious effects on the quality of the SERPs.
How many on this site have started using other SEs for some searches because of the reduced quality of SERPs from Google. I know I've been using ATW much more lately and have been pleased.
The quality of the SERPs is the only thing that matters to Google. It made them what they are, not marketing PageRank. Anything that affects the quality of the SERPs must go, IMO. They need to pull a 1984 and strike all references to PageRank.
Friends , Lets be frank ...how many in the General Public know about the PR display ... most of my friends are in hi-tech and even they are ignorent about the PR display...as someone said lets not confuse the needs of webmasters with that of the surfers ...
I dont think "Marketing" is the goal of the PR display...Google has no need to market its "Algo" to webmasters ( it only needs to market 'Adwords' to us )...
Hey , this is not a rant ( i have my fair share of high PR sites) ...only a concern from a Google Admirer
If the technology exists that can feed into this bar, creating the impression of added value in the form of some kind of meter (irrespective of what that meter actually calibrates) they are going to put it up there.
Sorry to be such a downer. Those who believe the thing is there to help us are, I think, sweetly naive.
Those who don't find it helpful in actual fact are something worse than naive.
Most definitely. With the toolbar, less likely people will surf elsewhere to search
>If the technology exists that can feed into this bar, creating the impression of added value in the form of some kind of meter (irrespective of what that meter actually calibrates) they are going to put it up there.
Although, the PR display is off by default. Google doesn't really hype this as a feature. I still think a major reason for this is because of jittery webmasters who know Google penalizes for "linking to bad neighborhoods". You know if a site has green in the toolbar it is OK with Google.
I don't think that's true, or at least not for people who have the toolbar installed.
Whenever I help someone install a new computer or software, the first thing I do is download them a google toolbar and enable the pagerank feature. 2nd thing I do is make Google News their home page :) They don't know what pagerank is, but after searching 50 pages or so and seeing that little bar move up and down, they begin to realize it is some sort of gauge of how good the site is, how much traffic it gets, how popular it is --- whatever. But they know it is "better" if the green bar is longer. And they happily vote with the smiley faces for sites they like or dislike, thinking it will alter this little green bar :)
Look how the sites are sorted in the directory. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that sites with a higher green bar are "better." Once more people install the toolbar with pagerank and surf the directory they will realize just how valuable a tool it is to determine a sites worthiness.
I bet every single webmaster here questions their purchase online if it's from a PR0 site and breathes a little easier if it is PR7+ :) So it is a wonderful tool for the advanced user and the masses, you just have to get them to use it more before they embrace it, but I don't think the concept of pagerank in application (not theory) is hard for them to understand.
One importaint factor that the user will not realise it that different markets will have a different standard of pagerank. for example I will use "search" and "clay modeling" as examples. In the search market the top dogs will all have a PR10 I would be surprised if the niche subject had anywhere near this. I think if google are going to offer a display of the importance of a site they need to use other things working along with pagerank. One thing I think they should do is to have a capped target for certain keywords. and have a scale in acordance to this. I am pretty sure google could work out from a page content what the page is about. The google bar would then call back saying currently browsing a site about widgets. The google toolbar server would then calibrate the sites pagerank acording to the possible caped score and return an acurate reading to the toolbar. This would allow the top site in each niche to have a 10 on the toolbar. Not pagerank 10 but importance 10.
Does anyone else think this could be the way forward?
So, couldn't agree more, one size should fit all - top drawer should be top drawer, whatever store you're in.
Mat
Are you going to judge company's on their web sites PR?
Lets say, "daf.com" with a net revenue of $2.5 billion a year and 6600 employees has a web site with PRO.
So, you better don't buy a Daf truck do you?
Let's look at the reasons why sites have no-low PR and what pops in my head as a result :)
1) site maybe new... company may be new as well and I may be dealing with a small time operation
2) website may be poorly optimized... company has no money/resources to get site fully indexed
3) website may be penalized for spamming... they choose short term spam techniques over long term branding to get traffic
4) site may have been dropped out of google by accident... cheap server / hosting or bad luck :)
5) directory structure of site is poor... homepage may be PR7, but with dynamic structuring may only show as PR2 for example
... whatever the reason is, it's not a good first impression for me when I'm personally shopping.
I actually made a purchase today for a new minolta dimage 7Hi which I'm very excited about :) Price was obviously a major factor when I shopped around but I still take into consideration the PR. It gives me piece of mind knowing the site has at least been around for a little while, they've put some time and effort into making / promoting their site, etc. For the record the site I purchased it from was PR5 even though I could have paid more at a PR9 site like Office Depot, or a little less at a PR0. For a measly +$20 difference and some good reviews to back their site up, I chose the PR5 never having done business with them before. I could have purchased with the PR0 site even though they had a similar # of good reviews, but they had spammed signifcantly and had a very new website so for me $20 savings was not worth the risk. :)
Now I'm sure the average shopper is nothing like me when judging PR to be a measure of how reputable the site is. But I think as people use the toolbar, they will see it always makes a good impression for higher PR sites and raises suspicions for lower PR sites.
I personally don't believe that Google has any sinister plans for this info, and I'm not one to get paranoid about privacy issues, but it is undeniable that this data on the browsing habits of the public (even in the abstract, with no personal info attached) is extremely valuable. They have their own little Nielsen ratings service.
Google's privacy policy states "Google will not sell or provide personally identifiable information to any third parties." What they do or plan to do with this info is unknown to me but I wouldn't be shocked if they offered access to this data to other companies for a fee. They're a business and this data is an asset.
This is a good point. No reason necessarily to get paranoid, since like the Nielsen ratings what is important isn't exactly who is watching, but how many are watching. However, the toolbar data could be used somehow in the algo, if it isn't already.
They don't know what pagerank is, but after searching 50 pages or so and seeing that little bar move up and down, they begin to realize it is some sort of gauge of how good the site isborn2drive, #msg99
Yep. That's on Joe users end. But, of course those are probably just a few millions.
For the webmasters and promoters however it's become what Wall street is for the business world.
No reason necessarily to get paranoid, since like the Nielsen ratings what is important isn't exactly who is watching, but how many are watching.
Do you think BarnesAndNoble.com would like to know exactly how people are accessing Amazon--what features are actually used and how often. What web-based company wouldn't want to have access to their competitor's web server log files? Data like Google is collecting may be the closest thing they can legally get.
Good point, atadams, but not necessarily tied to the PR display.
I think they would have some serious privacy issues if they collected info from people with no reason. Displaying PR in the toolbar is their reason/excuse.
The problem isn't how the public sees the toolbar directly, but how it affects the decisions that individual webmasters make as a result of knowing the PR of a domain / site / page. Your link trades, your page structure, and your links-off counts become more and more controlled by the desire to please googlebot, and less and less by pleasing clients, surfers, visitors. You cross link to related services that googlebot links, and you don't link to those that googlebot has deemed "bad neighborhoods" - even if that bad neighborhood is a good source of information or is directly related to the subject you are discussing.
We end up building the web to satisfy googlebot, and to the satisfaction of the little PR bar on the top of our browsers.
Not sure what that does to "search quality"...
Alex
