Forum Moderators: open
[edited by: crosenblum at 1:40 pm (utc) on April 24, 2003]
I don't use it.
Keep in mind that if you do nothing, then your Web site is not likely to be found by anyone on the search engines, so in affect, you are already "banned" for all intensive purposes. WebPosition is the very best rated
tool out there for creating a search engine friendly Web site that will rank highly.
I'm number one for a couple of my sites on many search queries, and I didn't use Webposition Gold...am I 'banned' too?
Sounds like too much trouble to me. On top of that, you have to PAY for the software. Just do it the old fashioned way. Learn SEO, hang out on webmasterworld.com and use the extra money to buy drinks or something when you achieve #1. .....Rum and Coke is always a favorite of mine.
Zuko
Personally, I've never liked WPG neither
The thing is, they can get away with it because the vast majority of folks out there don't know that all it does is teach you how to spam. Most of their customers probably like the product.
JohnC, can you clarify?
I bought WPG about a year ago and am very upset with them about what I've read here, not using it, etc. There are some helpful bits in there (the Knowledge Base--although that's yet another $99/year) but its original purpose seems totally useless at this point.
Christi
Zuko
Doorway pages worked and wasn't even considered spam several years ago but that is just not the case anymore. Hence why I said that it used to be a good product. Doorway pages now violate just about all search engine's Terms of Service and do very little to help with rankings anymore.
I haven't seen their knowledge base in such a long time so I can't really comment on it. However, I feel pretty confident in saying that there isn't anything in it that can't be found for free here at Webmaster World.
Christi
Buy the software and click a few buttons and viola! You are ranking in top 10 for every term.
When people want to believe the product will work-it doesn't take much to sell it.
AW
It will continue to sell because people _always_ want a quick fix.
No, it will continue to sell because reputable resources in our industry continue to promote it.
for me, this is the only 'reputable search engine optimization resource' and, afaik, we don't promote wpg. :)
Hm, where have you been hangin' out then I wonder? lol
bad joke, couldn't resist, sorry
In todays state of affairs, it is not a good product to use.
Just look at the newsletters they send out. A couple years ago they were informative and actually had good stuff in them.
Now, they are nothing more than an add for their product.
You don't need a program to look at a page and figure out what needs to go in there to be friendly to search engines and users alike.
That program is not geared towards users, but instead the search engines. Just look at the god awful doorway pages it spits out.
It has some good reporting features for checking sites positions. Just don't use it to check Googles or you may find your IP blocked.
There is no subsitute for experience and the human touch.
Quality Guidelines-Basic Principles [google.com]
Says enough about one of the features for me.
So, for the folks who don't do 100% manual checking, what programs/processes are you using and have you ever incurred a penalty for doing so?
If we see that one of our targeted terms is not getting the results we expected, we'll then do some manual searches, check out the landscape, then start our tweaking.
There is just too much risk involved using any of the commercially available rank checking programs. Rank checking is a prime selling tool and always has been. Unfortunately, there are associated risks.
Jeremy, I've always referred to WebmasterWorld as the Authoritative Resource. Under that classification of course comes reputable. Maybe I should have said that highly visible resources in our industry continue to sell WPG. ;)
Through good weblog parsers, it will show you what search engine found you and for what keywords. Some of my keywords I didn't even know. Once you see that in the reports, you can take all of 10 sec (30 on dialup) to go to the search engine and type in that query to what rank you are placed in.
...my two cents.
Anyone else using this method?
Zuko
I have read numerous threads here about the risks of automated rank checking software. What I have not heard though is how an SE could impose penalties. Say I use an automated program to check the top 30 results for the keyword "widget". Say I use the program from my home or at least from a totally different location than where my server resides, thus having a completely different IP than my server. If I am simply pulling results for the term "widgets" then how in the world could any penalty be imposed?
I am sure SEs don't want us using such software but I must be missing something where penalties are concerned. How would the SE know which site to penalize? They would never penalize every site listed for "widgets", how would they have a clue as to WHO to penalize?
I am not advocating the use of these programs, if we want to be listed in Google and Google says don't do it, then we probably shouldn't. I just don't understand how they would know WHO to penalize.
This brings up a good question though. What does everyone here use to check their rankings. Other than manually I mean. Of course, manually is most compatible with the Google TOS but come on, we don't all check manually all the time. Especially if we are tracking a ton of keywords.
So, for the folks who don't do 100% manual checking, what programs/processes are you using and have you ever incurred a penalty for doing so?
If you want to check your rank you can go to the advance search page at google and set to display the first 100 results instead of 10. Then just search for your site by using your browser's page search function.
Also if you use [google.com...] it numbers them, but it doesn't show the domain, just the titles.
Frankly if you aren't in the first 100 results, what's the point of searching any deeper.
In regards to individual sites being penalized for using WPG. I doubt very seriously that this occurs. If it did, then everyone would be utilizing the program to harm the competition. This is an ongoing topic at most search engine marketing forums.
People use rank checking programs all the time. They may be on a dynamic dial up connection or other scenarios where their activity cannot be traced. If rank checking programs are used sparingly and not abusively, I believe you can pretty much go undetected. That is just my opinion and I have no real world experience to back that statement up.
To avoid any possible issues, I've stopped doing rank checking as mentioned previously. I've groomed my clients and prospects into the world of web metrics which are much more important than finding out where we rank for a particular term.
I tell my clients if they see a term appear in their stats, then most likely there was a result from their site in the top 20 positions. If we see high numbers on primary keyword phrases, then we are usually in the top 10 positions.
It is time to break the mold. Rank checking programs are passe. Sure, they are a great selling tool for the consumer, but, in the long run web metrics and statistical analysis is going to be the key in determining the effectiveness of a search engine marketing campaign.
If automated tools are querying specific keywords, the web sites appearing for specific IPs can be narrowed down over time and your web site is penalized.
I've heard this claim many times, but I refuse to believe it. There are enough webmasters out there who would use this to get competitors banned. And the IP you use to connect to the internet (and query Google) is in no way connected to your site's IP address unless you are hosting a website on the same connection.
Or if an SE detects multiple automatic requests from your IP, they could block your IP to prevent you doing any queries in future.
This is the only justifiable penalty they could impose. I don't need automated checkers, but if you really need one, hey, use a dial up and you'll never get caught ;)
Please clarify. I am not sure how it can be narrowed down over time. I guess Google could see that X IP keeps checking the top 30 results for "widgets" but I don't know how they could, over time, narrow it down from there if the IP being used to check is completely different than the IP from any servers that are hosting any of the websites in said results.
Again, I know manually is best and I am not advocating the use of these programs but I have never seen a clear answer to how the SE determines WHO to penalize.
Google does not want it. Why is this even a question? They have been the first good search engine with valid results, and have given us an opportunity to make a living.
I just don't understand why people are saying...well you could do it from a different location so that they wouldn't know...... I 'could' turn myself into a woman, but I'm not going to......
If there are other ways of accomplishing the same thing, that are condoned by Google, then do it out of respect. Besides the techniques that are condoned by Google are FREE..... nuff said.
Zuko
[edited by: zuko105 at 7:25 pm (utc) on April 24, 2003]
Does anyone have a site, or does anyone know of a site that has been penalised for checking rankings automatically?
I know of companies who check rankings for 10s of sites on at least a monthly basis who have suffered no ill effects whatsoever.
