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Currently I'm at a PR4, and my competitor is at a PR6 because of a series of backlinks from a PR7 site. I was thinking of advertising on back-linked site as well.
To be on the homepage, which is a PR7, it would cost about $1000. Every other page in the site is a PR6 and that would only cost $350. I'm wondering if the extra $650 would be worth it to have a PR7 backlink.
Has anyone else had to make any tough decisions like this? It's being charged to my client, not me, so the decision isn't the easiest.
Around 40 links on the page, external links probably half that.
I currently have PR6. My site does OK already for many targeted and untargeted keyphrases.
The reason I would like guesstimates is as a lever to persuade another webmaster (different site; same parent company) to put the links on the PR9 page rather than on one of their many PR8 pages (which they have already agreed to do; not yet live).
Before anyone gets too green, both sites are info sites - there's no online purchasing on either site...
But I think if I could tell them, look this would be worth $X in the market, it might help persuade them.
Also opinions as to the difference it might make in SERPS would be interesting.
PLEASE NOTE: this is NOT, repeat NOT a solicitation. Any stickymail I get on this subject will be deleted, so please don't ask.
However, I've found little evidence so far that suggests that high PR = High SE rankings in a situation where all your pagerank is received from non-related websites.
Yes, a PR 5 site seeking high rankings for 'oakland web hosting' will benefit greatly from a link from a PR 7 site which is already high in the rankings for this search phrase.
But surely you understand that links from non-related sites will have little or no effect on rankings. If that were the case, then Yahoo and Microsoft would always appear in the top 10 for anything you search for on google!
No. Google has no idea at all whether the link is from a related or non-related sites. This isn't part of their algo. The reason Yahoo and MS don't appear in the top 10 for everything is on page text, and the off page factor of inbound anchor text. People don't link to Yahoo with an anchor text of "hamburgers", they do McDonalds.
Google has made adjustments to this strategy, and I would expect further adjustments this month. Sites that paid for a link ($2000+) on this site are now grossly over-paying.
"Adjustments" might be "Penalties" some day for sites with only a few incoming high PR links, so be careful out there!
It is possible this is a kind of "penalty". Because people may be buying and selling these links for click through value, a penalty as in PR0 is inappropriate. A good case if Fox News selling links on their PR8 home page for $5,000 a month. Google may have hand tweaked the algo not to count external links on high PR sites that are selling them. Thus, the reason those sites now are PR7 or lower is that Google is ignoring their bought links. As Google should.
As Google modifies it's algo to maintain search quality, the effect of purchased links will be diminished.
Therefore, consider purchased PR a short term and diminishing investment
I disagree HackingLawyer. If someone is willing to spend money to get pagerank to help improve their ranking for a particular phrase, then their site is probably a valid one to come up in the top results for their phrase.
It was one thing for a porn site to use the term "used cars" in their meta tags, but I don't think a porn site would by a link on auto trader's website, nor would they be able to.
Sites that want to buy their way to the top IMO deserve to be at the top. Isn't that how the premium sponsor ads work?
I did not say that PR was being eliminated, just that the algo will undergo change to minimize the gain in purchased links to high PR sites.
The geniuses at Google will find a way to assure their algo will produce content rich search results.
I still think purchased links are respectable if they're on content-relevent sites.
If I was smart enough to answer that question, I would be working for Google - wouldn't I?
We read a lot of threads about "how could this site with lower PR be above my site with higher PR", and we post answers about anchortext, inbound-links and so on. Thatīs why I am asking myself, whether itīs really worth to buy a PR 7 / 8 / 9 link only to get a PR - I actually donīt think so, if I do my work best.
Here's why
Mission: [webmasterworld.com]
We are here for members to discuss the process of doing business. There are enough (too many) b2b and b2c sites out there. Running a website these days takes a great deal of knowledge. The design, coding, maintenance, promotion, marketing, and management of a website is almost an impossible task for one person alone without extensive training. We are here as a forum for the members to share and gain knowledge in operating and promoting a website. Think of us as part of your extended site development and process team. We are not here to actually do business with one another.
So I'm after links that bring traffic now - and my experience is that the ones that generate the most traffic are on pages with low PR. I'm not sure if there's actually an inverse correlation there, but it's not impossible!
You bet Google would love to take traffik into account if that info was available to G.
Sn
It most definitely is worth it *if the price is right*. Of course, finding PR7+ pages who will sell you text links with just the anchor text you want dirt cheap ain't easy.
A few posts have been removed, we don't do "I want to buy/sell, please sticky me posts. Thanks.
</note>
Some people need to think more about site design than links, links, links.
At this rate, Google will make PR a less important factor as it is being manipulated. Right now it's important, but surely not the be all and end all of the web. It's become an obsession for some people.
If the toolbar didn't exist would we care? Or would we try to link up with relevant sites that we think are of use to our customers? I see too many link pages (read "farms") from otherwise good sites, covered in totally irrelavent links.
Anyway, must go and get a drink and stop blabbing.
PS : Anyone got any PR9 for sale :)?
Suppose someone had a brand new Ecommerce Site selling 10,000 different kinds of widgets. With a PR or 1 or 2 the homepage and only a couple of other pages might get indexed. None of the deep content get indexed and experienced people on here will often agree that is not the home page but often the large numbers of content pages that can really earn you the money.
Anyway because this ecommerce site is a commercial venture, getting people to link to it is hard work. While something like Webmasterworld.com might have 1000's of links because of it's informational value "widgets'r'us' just aint gonna get those kinda links.
So they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They don't have high PR so they can't get pages indexed, but they need pages indexed to have the rich content indexed so people can find the site and they can make a whole lot of money.
So their only option is to get out the check book (or visa card) and start shopping for links on higher page ranked sites so they can get enough PR to their home page so they can pass this page rank through the rest of their site and get their content indexed.
I just checked my logs a moment ago and Freshbot has indexed over a 1000 pages on my site this week, 215 in the last 24 hours.
WHY?
Because the site has a PR7.
It's as simple as that.
All other search engines have paid inclusion, Inktomi, FAST etc.
Google does too!
They don't accept the money themselves, they just make webmasters pay other webmasters to get enough PR so their content can get indexed.
Thanks Google!
After years of strugling to make enough money to pay my bandwidth bills is a depressed advertising market, this new entry level requirement for links for high PR sites means that webmasters who have worked for years to build up very popular sites in non commercial areas are finially getting a little something back for their long hours and hard work.
So getting back to "widgets'r'us" how much is it worth to them to have 10,000 pages indexed on their ecommerce site? I'd probably say it's would be worth in the order of $1000's of dollars a month. Because without it they are not making a single cent!
My concern is that you can buy PR and thus buy a ranking in Google, since the PR is currently an important factor in the ranking.
Good site design and content will get your site to the top of the list.
There are lots of examples of lower PR sites beating PR7 and PR8 sites. PR helps but is not the end of the world. Unless you need to get your content indexed. And as google increases the size of their index they will deep crawl more of lower PR sites anyway. So this is a temp situation that will work itself out within the next 12 months or so anyway.
PR is supposed to represent the true democratic nature of the internet, but it is starting to represent capitalism.
The www is only another imagination of the world.
finding PR7+ pages who will sell you text links with just the anchor text you want
At the end I agree with you, rfgdxm1, that all depends on price. If one has a good roi with over $1.000, why shouldnīt he pay?
I think itīs the old question about pareto: the first 80% you can reach with 20% of work, but for the last 20% you have to work 80%. If the checks are good filled with the first 80%, why doing more work?
All business decisions have a certain amount of risk - but I would lean to NOT SPENDING marketing revenue on the value of PageRank but more on the number of click-throughs.
That being said - $1000 can go a long way in AdWords and target specifically to users interested in what you have to offer.
In the end PageRank is a measurement... not an advertisement... and as such may or may not produce the desired effect you are looking for. ;)
Interesting topic to discuss. However it is business. And so there is always 2 options:
1) You can invest in quality of your service, in making it cheaper and better - so everybody will see it. In google it means you create good site with quality content and webmasters will link to it for nothing.
2) You can invest these money in advertising in newpapers, tv, ... From google it means you just by these incoming links.
So which way is better in usual business ... all ways are good :) And I don't think it is POSSIBLE to change algo to count good links and not count bad links, as these bad links has no difference from bad links, if owner of the site whants it ;)
Another thing - in my industry I didn't see anybody bying links amoung my competitors, however with site with PR 6 and good incoming anchors you can earn from $20K and up to $80K a month (we did $10K with just PR5) - so the price to by link from relative PR7 and PR8 site is huge and worth $1000+ a month - and I think webmasters will soon do it.
My questions: If my client has a Travel site with a PR4, would luggage sites or Golf or Scuba sites with a PR6 or 7 be a good match as they may or do relate to travel?
If so, I see many ranges of costs listed on this forum for PR links. Are there any sites actually selling PR for this industry (Travel) or is it disguised as an advertsing term?
Thanks for any help.
RC
The reason is that I down OWN the Google Page Rank, Google owns it's page rank. So how on earth can I see something that I don't own, that's fraud isn't it?
That's like saying that radio stations shouldn't be allowed to sell advertising based on ACNielsen's ratings or movie advertisers aren't allowed to promote their movies using newspapers' reviews. Just because ACNielsen calculated the ratings, doesn't mean they own them. Just because a reviewer gave a movie four stars, doesn't mean no-one can use that information to their financial gain but the reviewer.
Only one solution for google on this one - get rid of the toolbar and stop ranking the directory according to pagerank.
Hmmm.
I have lots of small PR4 PR5 links and am unable to compete with them at all.
Just wondering mow many of these small PR4 PR5 links can compete with one PR8 or PR7.
regards,
