Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 126.96.36.199
Forum Moderators: open
Rather than develop a submission strategy, the proposed plan is to let the SEs find your site by garnering inbound links before launch.
The basis behind this strategy is that the major engines find your site more quickly utilizing inbound links and some engines add a bonus in ranking if they find the site without a submission.
Personally, I recommend a submission strategy combined with gathering inbound links before launch but I'm looking for more input on this.
I've seen one of our more accomplished SEOs say he/she hasn't resubmitted in over a year. But I don't know if *not* submitting would be OK with client sites, when the client expects submissions to be done.
There's something in Google's Webmaster tips that mentions not having enough inbound links as a possibility for not being included in the index, but have never seen anything about a penalty for simply doing a submission.
I remember something from way back about Inktomi applying a penalty for submitting, which is lifted if and when they find a site through a link. But can they or others besides Google or FAST be relied on to add sites without paying at this point in time anyway?
Without mention of penalty, I do remember it being mentioned that Inktomi will find sites though certain quality links, with evidence cited that a site not submitted was added shortly after a substantial link was made available. That would be in the Pay for Spidering forum, if you care to hunt - it's in an Inktomi thread.
I've not read anything at all recently and don't know of any evidence to substantiate that there's any penalty, so personally, I'll submit anyway so that I can honestly report that submissions have been done; but I think wisdom dictates recommending paying for spidering given current conditions, just to give a fair chance and an honest viewpoint.
One of the dissenting points of view with the non-submission strategy was concern over how the client would react to non-submission.
Personally, I can't think of any of my recent clients that would go for that.
I also mentioned submitting to foreign search engines in the thread which is largely ignored by many SEOs.
The original thread is here if you'd like to take a look:
As I said, I was looking for more input on this, I like to gather as much information as possible and I plan to write a short piece on this after I get enough info to analyze.
With me it's a mind set thing, removing the option to submit makes it easier for me to work the web map.
>how the client would react to non-submission.
Tell the client to get on with their business whilst you get on with yours :)
>work the web map.
Good advice from NFFC. Once you've built your incoming links, the "good" search engines will find you.
The smaller, more geographic, or vertical search services may need a hint your site is there, but, generally, submissions are not that important.
Of course, you'll need to submit to the directories, etc., so, you will have to have a submission strategy for that.
Marcia makes the point about:
>the client expects submissions
Quite right, they do, mainly because of the add url option, however, most don't fully understand the implications of the submission and its value, however, do keep a record of any submission you make.
Take the lead and advise your clients that submissions to the top search engines are not the priority.
So there is Google - what NFFC and Engine said.
Then there's Fast - submitting sometimes brings you in in no time.
But then - for many engines free submits are like dead phones. And even if you do get in you get buried.
Aren't the glorious days of engines eager to cover the www all gone?
The World is consistently left out of the WWW and I think a large traffic resource is left untapped.
I can state for a fact that some of the overseas engines that provide good traffic will NOT list your site unless it is submitted to them.
Another issue is the viral way in which links become traded across the web. A link in a high traffic non-U.S. directory or engine seems to foster links in more non-U.S. sites and more engines and directories. Site descriptions provided in the native language of the engine in question also seem to aid in link promotion in non-U.S. engines, directories and sites.
Typical U.S optimization strategies tend to ignore the rest of the world in their traffic promotion ideas, let alone the actual optimization of sites explicitly for foreign engines. Granted, it is a lot of work, but the ROI has been worth it for several client sites as well as a couple of my own sites.
Another consideration is the deep indexing of sites with considerable content. Simply waiting for crawls utilizing link strategy would seem vastly time consuming. If every engine indexed as well as Google this wouldn't be as much of an issue, unfortunately, most engines do NOT index content as well as Google.
With estimates in the 5-10 billion range of pages on the net, it's obvious se's can't - at this point - index them all. I can't imagine an se being willing to give a site a boost because "it found it" before it was submitted. I don't see the logic in that.
I do however, practice it myself from time to time (not intentionally though). When a new domain goes online it is often not really in a state to be seen by anyone. Often while the work is being preformed, an se will find it.
I also used to practice "submission by insinuation" (eg: dangle a referral string to the se's and see if they bite). Google used to bite all the time - it was good fishing. They don't do that anymore from what I can tell. I think they used it just to build the se and reward those that linked with them.
Just my experience
There are several reasons for this, but I'm looking into those now and really don't want to speculate without more info .
I'm still submitting, my clients are still happy and traffic is good.
When a new domain goes online it is often not really in a state to be seen by anyone. Often while the work is being preformed, an se will find it.
To whatever catagory the site is specific to, lets say Macintosh Computers - I then research all the news sites for Macintosh computers. When the site is launch date I send a little note or submit feedback, submit news to them stating it is online.
I then submit to all my engines just the standard thing. Next month all is well and the site is doing well. :)
There's a few Israeli SEs Id love to submit to, but I cannot read Hebrew to save my own life.
How do you overcome the language barrier when submitting to foreign engines?
How do you overcome the language barrier when submitting to foreign engines?If you don't have content in the target language why would you want to submit there? If I'm searching on an English SE/dir and find a matching result but the page is all in Russian...not only do I hit the back button off the result, but my opinion of the SE/dir lowers as well. You're not doing anyone any favors by putting non-target language sites in these SE/dirs.
If you do have relevant language content then it is certainly a good idea to submit to the smaller regional sites. They're generally not Google level behemoths and require prodding.
Thanks for the advice!