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Netscape!?... Ewww!

I think I hate Netscape, why won't my site work? :(



10:57 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

Hello everybody!

I've only recently started to study web-development, so bare with me...

I've created a personal website, using my own server, and I've been told to check through both IE and Netscape to make sure everybody can view my website. Well, I just downloaded Netscape 4.7, installed it, and went to go look at my site. Guess what... HALF the pages only show the background! None of my rollovers work, and none of the music I have embedded works either.... What can I do to fix the situation? (And don't tell me to get rid of some of those things, because that's not an option, I'm looking for ways to enhance what I already have, not tear-down the site.)

I appreciate anybody's help on the matter!



11:05 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member mivox is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

The first thing I'd look for causing missing page content is a problem with table tags. A single missing "end" tag (</td>, </table>, etc.) somewhere in your table structure can cause the entire table to disappear. IE is much more forgiving on the missing tag issue.

As far as broken rollovers, it probably has to do with a difference in the necessary coding for the various browsers. Try to find a script that includes a "browser sniffer" function to replace the scripting you're currently using.

Embedded music I've only used once (and only because the client insisted). I do recall there being one tag that only worked in IE, so I had to switch to another tag that was cross-browser compatible... but I don't recall what the tags were. :o


11:05 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Welcome to WmW Neysa40

htlm needs some work

AddImage("Home", "file:///C¦/WINDOWS/Desktop/Renee's%20Stuff/Web%20Development/Button-Icons/EarnhardtButtons/NewButtons/HomeRed.gif", "file:///C¦/WINDOWS/Desktop/Renee's%20Stuff/Web%20Development/Button-Icons/EarnhardtButtons/NewButtons/HomeBlue.gif", "", "", "");

Is this your directory structure? /Button-Icons/EarnhardtButtons/NewButtons/HomeBlue.gif")

I'm in MSIE and most of the nav buttons don't show.


11:17 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Here's a chart of compatibility features for browsers:



11:19 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

To mivox:
Thanks for the tip, I will check to make sure I have all the "end" tags.

To Mike_Mackin:
Unfortunately, I took the "lazy-man's" way out on creating the JavaScript for the rollovers. If you look in the top of the source, you'll see that I used a freeware to create the script; all I had to do was copy/paste the script into my page. I really only know VERY little JavaScript, (but I am a quick study, I just haven't actually sat down and studied in a while.... I'm learning at home by reading, and utilizing tutorials on the web). I know I need to learn the right way to do it, but it seemed the simpler and quicker way to do it, and I was being impatient. That's one of the reasons I joined this site as soon as I found it,... because I knew I could learn something here. Please help me to learn the "correct way" or the "best way",... I will be forever grateful!


11:40 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

I don't know Java but it is the paths to your .gif file that are not clean.

Try something like
AddImage("Home", "file:HomeRed.gif")
AddImage("Home", HomeRed.gif")

Your paths are following what is shown on your C drive.
Your site is not hosted on your C drive.
The serve can't find the images.



11:47 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

Ok, I've fixed the paths,... I think... let me know if you can see them now :)


11:53 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

:) yup in MSIE :)

I upgraded to NS6
It ruined my life so I trashed NS


11:56 pm on Jul 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure Netscape is worth the trouble of getting... after I Downloaded it, and "tried" to view my site, it crashed the system and I had to reboot... and that's v4.7. not that KrApPy v6.0 :-P
(btw): Thanks Mike :)


12:16 am on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rcjordan is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Yup in NS4

Just took a quick look, except for the NS pixel shift it looks the same as in IE5. Mouseovers seem to work.


11:18 am on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

The first thing to do is use a systematic method. I rarely check pages in alternative browsers and I know 99.9% of the pages I write work with all browsers. How?

>I've been told to check through both IE and
>Netscape to make sure everybody can view my website.

Skip that step and first head to the W3C (WorldWideWeb) site. They make the standards including those for HTML. Validate your page against the standard:


Or a local version of same:

You probably will have a tough time getting things to validate. Once you do get close, you can use the same methods on all your pages you write from here on out. I don't get alot of pages to validate since I take some liberties with the standard - however, I rarely have to check them anymore since I know they are close enough when written that they will work.

Skip the specifics people tell you do try, and learn a good system of writing first. Once you get close to standard, you'll not have to worry about pages working in browser x or y. If you validate the page fully, then it is up to the browser to display it as close as it can.


1:12 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

Thanks Brett! I'll look into the validator.

Great stuff guys! Keep it comin'! I am so anxious to learn as much as I can.

(I am so happy I found this site!:))


4:59 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

Hey mivox!

I checked on the "end" tags, and you were right... I was missing a few on some pages. Thanks for the help :)

Now the only thing that's missing in the NS browser is the embedded music... anyone got any tips on how to embedd music in the background and have it work for both IE and NS?


6:12 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

If your audio file is a midi, aiff, or wave file, use these two tags to autoplay the music in the background--the bgsound tag is for IE, and the embed tag is for Netscape.

<bgsound src="yoursong">

<embed src="yoursong" autostart="true" hidden="true">

There are other attributes for these tags also. A very nice book is "Web Design in a Nutshell" by Jennifer Niederst. Most chapters begin with all the pertinent tags and their respective attributes, followed by a good introduction of how to use them. It's great for quickly getting to info you need.


6:22 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member mivox is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

I checked on the "end" tags

I've seen 'big' professional sites with the same problem, that's how I found out about that one. Trying to register a company into an online industry directory, only to have 1/2 of the signup forms not show up! I ended up helping them troubleshoot their site. (Why I didn't bill them for my time, I don't know...)

As for the music, what tag are you currently using to call the music file (and what format is the file)? Might help jog my memory...


6:42 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

That's weird,

The current tag I'm using is:
<EMBED SRC="MySong" HEIGHT="24" AUTOPLAY="true" HIDDEN loop="true">

According to Gene, this is the tag for Netscape,... (or is it? It looks close, but not exact...) yet it plays in IE, but not Netscape... All my music files are in .mp3 format.

Do I put both tags
<bgsound src="yoursong"> and <embed src="yoursong" autostart="true" hidden="true">
in the page? This wouldn't cause a conflict in the way it plays would it?

Another question I thought of: I have a cable modem, so it's no problem for me to load pages with a lot of pictures and with music in the background. I know that there are still some poor souls out there that still use a Dail-up service, and having a lot of pics, and music only slows down the loading process. I know for a fact that the way I have the music now, when a Dial-up user starts to load the page, it will play the first 2 seconds or so, and then pause, and continue repeating this cycle until it has gone through the whole song once, THEN it will play the song as it's supposed to be heard. Any way to fix this? Is there a way to "pre-load" the music?

Wow, I just came up with yet ANOTHER question!: (I hope you don't mind, I REALLY appreciate all your help:)) I would like to make a few links on my site that, when clicked, the .mp3 file will just start playing,... Right now, it makes the user download the file before it will play. I know there's a way to fix that, but I'm not sure how to go about doing it.


7:31 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member mivox is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

The "embed" tag is the one I used... don't know why you're having problems with it. You're not supposed to put both tags on the page...

Although, speaking as one of those "poor dial up users" who's connection rarely even reaches 33.6, I'd have to say it would be better to make the sound file optional: a "sound on" and "sound off" link in a little jukebox graphic or something like that would be much preferred.

How that would work, I don't know.


9:15 pm on Jul 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

There are some details to check on to make sure your sound will work cross-browser. Here's a couple links:

Another Discussion on WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]
Web Reference [webreference.com]


12:42 am on Jul 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

About my earlier post...

Using the 2 tags together should have a <noembed> </noembed> enclosed around the <bgsound> tag, as noted in Tedster's link. However this appears only because IE didn't pick up the embed tag until IE3. So I suppose we can just drop the bgsound tag altogether, unless someone's still using IE2.

Now as I said in my 1st post, this is all well and good for midi or wave files. As far as mp3 files, I don't know how to do this in NS with an embed tag; it may be that NS uses different attributes for the embed tag.

But you can access an mp3 file on both browsers by simply using an anchor tag...

<a href="song.mp3">click here</a>

Of course this will not hide the player, and it requires the user to begin the process.

I'm afraid there are a helluva lot more than just "SOME poor souls out there" with dial-up modems. The majority of surfers use dial-up. You may want to consider finding a midi file to play in the background. They are very small, compared to mp3 files. It takes me about 1 and 1/2 minutes to download a 3 minute mp3 file (500k), as opposed to just a few seconds to load a midi file.

You said that you're on a cable connection. I suggest you take a serious look at your site on a 56k modem. I have never seen any of the photos that are supposed to display on your site and I've waited about a full minute just to get the nav buttons and "other" stuff to load; then my browser just sits there processing "something." Even after I close the browser window that opened to view your site, my modem icon is lit up solid, and stays lit up until I shutdown all my browsers. Something in your code seems to be tying everything up. Perhaps my IE browser is downloading your mp3 file--I don't know.


3:24 pm on Jul 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

That's exactly the kind of info I need! I want to make my website viewable to ALL surfers!
Thank's Gene! :)
(were you talking about the main page? or the Picture Gallery Page?)

I will try to find a better way to put music in the background, or I will just use the "Click Here To Start Music" link. (Is there a way to make a link to the music without the user's media player poping up, and having to download the song? I know I've seen it on another site before, just can't remember where.) Also, I probably have too many pictures on one page for modems other than cable and above to load at a reasonable rate (Some of the pics are actually quite large), so I will try to redo it a little so the loading process doesn't take as long. I guess I'll have to add more pages, or create thumbnails... anybody know how to do thumnails? I don't know how to resize a pic without distorting it. (Like I said,... I'm a newbie to this Wonderful World of Web-development:), so bare with me.)


4:18 pm on Jul 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

The loading prob I stated was on your Main page.

Yes, taking some things off your main page is a good idea--it's too long. A long scrolling Home page usually isn't a good idea, though it really depends on the content and the audience.

What are you reading right now?

Some good newbie books are:
Learning Web Design --Jennifer Niederst
HTML Goodies --Joe Burns (he also has a web site)

Do you code by hand or use a WYSIWYG editor like FrontPage. Ideally, you need to do both if you really want to be adept at web design.


4:48 pm on Jul 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

>What are you reading right now?

I haven't been reading much lately, but I started learning HTML with a book called:
HTML & CGI Unleashed, by John December and Mark Ginsburg.
I never got through the whole thing,... started studying before I got my server. Once I had the server and learned how to actually put pages out there,....

>Do you code by hand or use a WYSIWYG editor like FrontPage.

I got an HTML editor called Chami HTML-kit and just kept going from there. Then I wanted to learn how to do some cool stuff on my page, and I got this book:
JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (Third Edition), by David FLanagan
I liked this book much better than the first because it was very easy to read. Again, I never finished the entire book,... I started getting lazy, getting Script from the web,... either from looking at other people's sources, or from tutorials and such. One of my favorite sites is Draac.com (I Hope that's ok to put in this post, I have no relation to this website, just thought it a good tutorial site that could be useful):) I got the script for the letters trailing behind the mouse-cursor from that site. And finally, my most recent laziness was getting the button-maker from the web to generate the Rollover Script for me.

We're using Windows '98 right now, and plan to upgrade soon (both hardware and software), so when we do that I'm going to get FrontPage, only because I've heard so many web-developers mention it and I'd like to see how it works. I have Adobe PhotoShop, but it frustrates me... I'm having a hard time learning how to use it.

(edited by: Neysa40 at 5:49 pm (gmt) on July 13, 2001


5:19 pm on Jul 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member mivox is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

(Is there a way to make a link to the music without the user's media player poping up, and having to download the song? [...])

My one client with a music file on their page used midi format... never saw it open a media player on Mac or Windows.


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