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Many PR1 sites get spidered and indexed everyday and this happened before all the changes occured to the algo's and the update cycle.
You can for instance get 1 link from a PR 5 site and be indexed the next day, in full and be getting traffic. I know this I have done it several times. One of those sites is now PR 3 and I have not touched it for 3 months.
As someone mention on the previous page of this topic (I believe it was Mr Moderator himself) the changes have been and are taking place every second even right now as you read this. The concept is easy to grab and all you need to do is check your logs once or twice a day. Usually if GoogleBot doesnt come back after a visit then it has not found anything interesting or different on your site.
This is where optimization comes into the conversation and that is not the aim of this topic so I will keep shut.
Summary: Check your logs, keep tabs on what is going on and figure it out for yourself.
There must be some logic to the visits. It makes no sense that they happen randomly, regardless of frequency of updates, PR or backlinks.
I can check my logs and try to guess. But I doubt analyzing JUST my own logs will do. More diverse data is needed.
The way I used to tell that a dance had happened was when all my new pages improved in ranking. Now all my new pages have been stuck for over a month.
If you were to tell me that Google will re-index my new pages whenever it gets around to it, I could buy that. But if it's the case that they're supposedly re-indexed ALREADY, then I've never been more confused.
Someone said that the details of the Google dance being dead were in "Forum 3" but I don't see numbers in the forum listing. Could someone post a link to the appropriate thread?
A little OT (Off Topic) but related, I have few bookmarks. I utilize the Google Toolbar every day, I'd say on average 5-6 times an hour, 12-14 hours a day. I locate my favorite sites through the SERPs (Search Engine Results Pages). Of course many of those favorites are my own. ;)
Actually I know nothing... but I do enjoy listening to
Art Bell and making crop circles in my spare time.
Follow the money, as Rush would say...
a quick quote from a message in this thread..
"Then you saw a nice stream of visitors coming in from Google while the rest of the SE world ignored you and reminded you that you could pay them to be listed. Then you realized that Google was doing good enough for you that you didn't HAVE to pay to be listed if you content was good. "
Does anybody think that Google will go "pay for play" as
the other searches have? I think they will. If they are
going to go public (get listed, sell stock) then pay for
play (I think) would definitely be in the cards.
Are we coming out of the bottom of the curve of the cyclical business
period for the search engines? I see black!
And what about that 70's Show... you remember... Inktomia first feed
Yahoo... then it went altavisa (I think) yahdayahdayahda..
Bellbottoms, clamdigger and capri pants, Mary Tyler Moore came back...
Is Infoseek coming back?! boy that was fun changing a webpage every
five minutes and seeing immediate changes in the index... NOW therrre,
that was some kind'ah dancing...
Follow the money... follow the money.. follow the money...
John Q. Public has absolutely no clue to how "fresh" a search is...
so the money will come from..... Pay for placement, inclusion, or
regular "refreshes" paid to Google...
I'm sure many of you have pages out there in Looksmart... before
they started charging... with descriptions just as they were entered
years ago... like an old nostalgic postcard from some hottie you
met on the boardwalk when you were 16.
Cheers.. all comments are mine... and I think I owe GoogleGuy a
beer, jello shooter, or something....
Makes me think of the Garth Brooks Song, The Dance
Please help me find the obit! I'd like to know where I was when "The Dance Died".
Chorus by the Munchkins of WebmasterWorld
Ding Dong! The dance is dead. Which Dance? The Google Dance!
Ding Dong! The Google Dance is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Google Dance is dead.
She's gone where search engines go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho,
Let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know ...
The Google Dance is dead!
As Mayor of WebmasterWorld, In the County of Internet, I welcome you most regally.
But we've got to verify it legally, to see...
If she ...
Is morally, ethic'lly ...
Undeniably and reliably Dead
As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her.
And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead.
Then this is a day of sadness For all the WebmasterWorld members and their descendants!
Yes, let the historical news be spread The beloved Google Dance is dead!
The way it used to be was that my new pages would appear (or old pages re-crawled) in the index, but they wouldn't get bumped up until the dance. I'd know when the dance happened because all my edited pages would move up. But now I have pages which have been stuck in very low positions for over a month, even though they ought to rank a lot higher.
Is it the case that the pages aren't re-ranked yet and that Google will re-rank them when it gets around to it (which I could accept), or is every page in the SERPs now supposedly already ranked (in which case I panic because I don't know why my results don't move up anymore)?
Thanks for any insight anyone can share.
Is it the case that the pages aren't re-ranked yet and that Google will re-rank them when it gets around to it
The thing is that you will not know when Google might update your page or page rank. My site and page rank were updated a couple of days ago. Who knows when it will happen again ... but my guess is that it will be more regularly for those sites which change frequently and less regularly for those which historically don't. (Don't quote me though ... its only a guess!)
What, so you you were walking down the street and you found a paper with the WebmasterWorld url on it? I'd bet a months pay that you came to this site directly or indirectly via 'the update' or one of it's children topics.
I can't find the thread where I originally posted that the dance was over (that was a few months ago). In that thread I offered some wild guesses as to what was transpiring at Google. Guess what, all those wild guesses have come to light.....
You might be referring to a thread that Brett started in supporters? ;) It should be tucked a few pages in, if i remember right there was quite a lengthy thread there titled "liquid pagerank" but was pretty much on topic with this thread.
I'm relatively new to WebmasterWorld, at least as far as posting or caring much, and I'll admit, that was a mistake, since there are a lot of useful tips around here. But I have had to deal locally with 'the dance', and have often been amazed at the similarity to OCD as in 'step on a crack....' type thinking.
'If I'm not watching the dance! It won't watch *ME*!'
Marketing is one of the more nebulous of arcane arts, and SEO is without a doubt the most voodooish of the marketing arts.
No doubt that there *is* something to those dark arts though! Within a year my parner has managed to bring all of our customers up to page one ranking for their most important keywords, and you can't really argue with 'success', even when it's 'hold this rock and chant 'googlerama' three times and tigers will not eat you!
Since I'm not really an SEO kinda guy, feel free to move on before I state my opinion, but, my opinion is that this is all just more of the same... higher resolution views of the web.
When there were only a few algorithms to deal with, they were the height of arcane. Until the algo-masters changed them to throw off the unwary.
Look at it as evolution in action.
Now there are more algos, and they could change every day. SEO's have adapted to survive.
Certainly Google would prefer to have *all* search results paid, but they seem sane enough to realize the fatality in becomming a 'paid' search engine.
Hungry info-maniacs would soon supplant you.
The dance may be dead, but the new SEO algo is running
Now, in regards to backlinks and PageRank, that is another story. I still feel that we are being groomed for the demise of PageRank, I really do. You don't have to believe me, but just keep your eyes open and watch what happens over the next few months.
That would suit me fine. PageRank in and of itself is a nice idea. The problem was that Google let the cat out of the bag,then they put the PageRank indicator into the Toolbar. All of the focus in site development started to turn to PageRank optimization instead of content optimization. This,effectively,made PageRank a source of bias instead of a search results quality tool. Pages which were designed well and contained relevant information wound up getting buried well beyond the 3 page limit that most search engine visitors will normally read. This also led to a frenzy of link trading to try and build backlink referrals. This further skewed the results making them not as relevant as possible.
PageRank for the sake of PageRank became the order of the day as Google became more and more dominant. This,sadly,resulted in the demise of many sites who couldn't get SERP position or afford PPC (pay-per-click search engine listing) or PFI (pay for search engine inclusion - generally by the page).
Google can afford to devalue or even to lose PageRank. They have many advantages over most of the other search engines. I still believe that Altavista's Babelfish language translator is superior. For now,at least,they seem to offer quality search results within a reasonably short update time frame. Remember,Google is not in the business of delivering traffic to businesses. Their business is to deliver high-quality,relevant,unbiased search results to visitors. They parlay this into contracts with other companies who want to take advantage of a huge influx of search visitors and who want to offer the same high-quality search results.
It seems that Microsoft is grouping for yet another search engine war. Most people generally believe that the large reserves of Microsoft marketing money and their ability to combine their search with their browser will garner them a large share of the search market. This threat has forced everyone in the market to adapt,and quickly. This is a good thing for everyone. Google can't afford for a negative perception of PageRank or any of their technology to cost them market share.
PageRank importance has been decreasing steadily over the past couple of years. I wouldn't be suprised to see it decrease even more or completely disappear. What I'm wondering is this: The heart and soul of PageRank is backlinks. Does this mean that backlinks will also become less relevant? If that is the case then I would think that we're drifting back towards the old "content is king" days when search engines seeemed to be working to deliver results featuring well-constructed pages which offered relevant content instead of relying on a "gimmick" that wound up skewing search results.