Forum Moderators: open
questions i have for the guys that have been on both sides is
-how much more info there is on the other side since there is no refund?
-peeople that do join to the other side do they bother visiting "free" forum after or go straight to "paid"
i guess that would be it ;)
thanks guys
nermin, vancouver
I think this side has definately suffered some but I guess that's what the goal is when the subscription option is there.
Well, if this side has suffered, it is not for lack of active participation by paying members. The same names you will see on the "other side" post regularly here as well. Some of the input of the more senior members might be diluted some on the public side by the huge influx of new posters, though.
The best part of subscribing is that you know you are helping to support a very valuable resource on the web. For me, I get more value every month - maybe every week - out of WebmasterWorld than the yearly subscription costs me.
If you want to be a part of keeping the board going and banner free, by all means join - if you can afford to. If you are a web professional, I don't see how you can afford not to join.
I read every single thread in Supporters Forum
That may give you a clue about what is being said behind the door.
Lots of fellow members in there, having a friendly discussion without getting sidetracked.
Saying that, I still spend a lot lot more time on the outside, and post more out here.
Shak
i will join but wanted to kind of get some info of what to expect
thanks for info
nermin, vancouver
Rawer and edgier;
Much less moderating;
Has its share of white hats, black hats, and company reps. Even Google Guy anted up.
lawman
Many members "first post" was to the supporters forum.
I guess they don't see "paying" as a disadvantage but as a competitive advantage. ;)
1- I don't want reporters to know what I'm thinking about certain industries
2- It will probably receive a more thoughtful discussion.
I kind of expect a higher level of discussion there, and while it's relaxed and has it's foo-like threads, there are also discussions there that are more advanced than what you find on the outside.
I don't like to discuss the basics anymore, and it's refreshing when someone discusses things on a deeper level.
Not that you can't find deep discussions on the outside. There's a lot of past threads on the outside that take things to a more advanced level, too. But I myself feel more comfortable discussing them in the back because I won't have the inexperienced combative types coming around ruining the thread by questioning the most basic things.
That is my way of thinking, With all this knowledge and help available for less than £2 ($3) a week it comes very cheap, so by joining you are supporting a community which gives us a lot more than we could ever give back
If you break it down to what it costs for a drink of beer (even coffee) and how much you would spend on a night out and times by 52 weeks you would spend 10-20 times that amount in a year and not think that was a waste of money
If you went on any courses or bought a book/video to learn about web design, programming etc you could not learn as much in the same amount of time.
To my knowledge there are no courses for SEO, and if there was, the web changes that fast what you had learned would be obsolete in no time at all
What can you get for £2 in the UK
pint of alcohol
2 cups of coffee in a crap cafe
1 cup of coffee in a good cafe
10 cigarettes
the list goes on but you are not giving much up a week to support a community where knowledge and help is given FREE, don't forget to run you own sites cost you money, imagine what it cost Brett to keep WebmasterWorld on line
Imagine a world without "web master world" what would we do, where could we go, arhhhhh that would be a nightmare on elm street revisited
I think it's a matter of supporting the community :)
That was exactly my reason for joining. With all I knew I would learn here I felt it was the least I could do.
how much more info there is on the other side since there is no refund?
If you're expecting to get spoonfed - and don't take that the wrong way please :) - a bunch of "insider" techniques or something you'll be disapointed. But I'll tell you, I've picked up some real gems back there. The quality of discussion seems higher and the noise level is lower.
peeople that do join to the other side do they bother visiting "free" forum after or go straight to "paid"
Generally, yes. Topics that belong outside usually do get posted outside.
Has its share of white hats, black hats, and company reps. Even Google Guy anted up.
So GoogleGuy paid the supporters fee? Thats a huge credit to WebmasterWorld.
Steve
Google Guy anted up.
Oh the irony!
TJ
Plus, think of the community model. This forum is built on the free contributions of the community, and yet the community has to pay? That doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, I want to see what's behind the curtain, but the cost, the WebmasterWorld Highlighted Posts tease, and the overall violation of the community principle really turn me off.
I understand the need to slow things down and provide a place for more advanced discussion, but there's got to be a better way to do it. I would pay $15 for a month of read access to see if its worth it. I would probably pay $75 a year for read access, or perhaps a limited ability to post. IMO, that would be a way to keep things slower but still give more people access.
Also, I know this probably wasn't the primary reason for implementing this system, but if its anything of a factor, $149 has got to be significantly higher than the optimum price point. I.E., I'm sure more than 3x as many people would sign up at $50.
[edited by: Marcia at 3:14 am (utc) on Aug. 22, 2003]
[edit reason] Syntactical modification. [/edit]
I'm not a paid side member, at present time anyways.
My first thought to the above however was, aye, tis not only possible that's highly accurate, but tis perhaps also a very compelling reason an optimum conversion benchmark was not elected.
If the other side was priced at a "ain't no thang' level, it seems all but certain to me that the paid side would be flooded with membership. If even one part of the reason for the paid side is a noise to signal reduction, an optimal benchmark subscription fee would thus seem quite counter-productive.
The level of discussion tends to me more candid ... but at the same time, there are rules which are applied.
There are still the same newbie questions cropping up over there, but not quite as many. Paying members tend to use the resources the site offers (site search, library, etc) before posting questions though. That's a nice bonus!
I am astounded by the number of new members to WebmasterWorld over the past year and I must admit that it is sometimes a bit overwhelming to try to keep up with all the discussions, but I try to drop into both forums at least once a day, even if I don't post.
If you can afford it ... its worth it. :)
$149.00 / 365 = $.4082 per day.
Do you really consider that to be too much for the wealth of information that can be extracted from this board? There was a topic not long ago on this years best SEO/SEM tools that was worth the $149.00. There are plenty of other topics that are discussed back there that are worth ten times that amount.
If you can't afford the yearly subscription, then you can opt for the 6 month subscription. If you find after six months that it was not worth it, then you can choose not to renew your subscription and stay outside with the rest of us. ;)
I participate 98% in public and 2% behind closed doors. I read through everything I can that is of interest whether it be out here or back there. There are definitely some gems to be found behind closed doors. That is not to say that there aren't a lot of gems to be found out in public either. ;)
Hmmm, in response to Dolemite...$149.00 / 365 = $.4082 per day.
Do you really consider that to be too much for the wealth of information that can be extracted from this board?
No, but the point is, the intangible entity of the board didn't generate any information on its own...everything came from members, so why should members then have to reimburse anyone for their own efforts?
If that sum had some market value that reflected a tangible commodity that was being used, then it might make some sense, but until I start pulling a GB/day... ;)
I'm not saying the information isn't extremely valuable, just that the information itself doesn't cost anything...and most of all, those who provide the information shouldn't also be paying for the privilege.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who hung out here for a few weeks couldn't attribute a few hundred dollars of incremental income to what he learned here. Of course, if you are running a non-profit or hobby site with no prospect of income, then I can see where even $150 would be a significant expense. But, if you are running that kind of site, LOTS of tools will be beyond your reach, or at least unjustifiable in economic terms. Look at software - for a given application, you can often choose between price points of free, $100, $1000, or $10000... You'll typically get more functionality and support as the prices go up, but you have to look at your income stream and make the most cost-effective choice.
One other point - software and bandwidth costs are hardly the only issues here. Brett has devoted countless hours to starting the forum, developing the software, moderating and tweaking, recruiting and managing the great admin/mod corps, etc. Had this amount of time been applied to billable client work (or for-profit site work), I'm sure the opportunity cost would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. If Brett is starting to recover some of this sunk cost, that's fine with me.
To Brett's credit, the largest part of the site remains free. Believe me, the knowledge available on the free side alone justifies the annual contribution.
I paid the subscription because this site gave me the helping hand when I needed it - free!
Plenty of people ante up over $1K for a seminar that lasts a few days, or subscribe to web stats services that cost $10K a year.
You wouldn't be happy about paying those prices if you got to that seminar and the organizers said, "OK, now put on the show for us," or if your web stats service told you to just look through your own log files and figure it out.
Therein lies the difference.
I don't know if this point is worth arguing. I'd note, though, that by and large the members who know the most (and contribute the most through their responses to the questions of others) also tend to be financial supporters as well.
<added>Succinctly put, lawman.</added>
Of course, if you are running a non-profit or hobby site with no prospect of income, then I can see where even $150 would be a significant expense.
Yes, it would be and was an expense, but well worth it.
Believe me, the knowledge available on the free side alone justifies the annual contribution.
This statement alone sums up how I feel.
I consider the 'other side' a bonus.
As Lawman stated, perhaps nothing will justify entrance in some cases..."One man's junk is another's treasure.."
I am thinking back and asking myself if I can remember any post that anyone made along the lines of, "The back room here is terrible-I expected more." I don't remember any.
I would hope we are candid enough there that someone WOULD say so, if it were true.
I have read every post in this thread and one conclusion is inescapable - Dolemite cannot justify the subscription fee and should keep his money in his pocket.
You're probably right, but instead of accepting that and moving on, I prefer to present some alternative subscription ideas and why I think they're necessary. I've always been a fan of pay-for-use models. Tollways make sense to me...but why anyone would pay a disproportionate amount to drive on a road that they helped build is beyond me. A road with no clear destination on top of that. That doesn't make sense to me, but I'm still curious about what's behind the curtain...where the road leads, especially if its more like what forum3 used to be.
I'm glad to know that everyone else dropped $149 with a smile on their face, though. It makes me feel more confident about some of my business plans. ;)
I know, you all are gonna yell down from your tower, save for it, in no time it'll be yours, but the reality is my impulses dictate my spending.
Please consider taking monthly installments.
US$ 149 is a lot especially when you do not know what you are getting. It is more than a subscription to Fortune or TIME magazines from memory, in fact I believe it is more than 5 months subscription to Satalite TV here in Thailand.
I cannot join until Amex is accepted directly. Will never use PayPal again so that is not an option.
One idea maybe to allow members who have over X posts to enter the forums for 7 days free to give them a taste.
US$ 149 is a lot especially when you do not know what you are getting.
Seriously, what you're getting as far as content isn't a whole lot different from what you get "on this side." As others have said, the noise level is a little lower and the post volume is a lot lower. There are a few gems of info that may or not be found in the free forums; but you're more likely to be find them in the supporter's forum because it's more likely that you'll be able to read all or most of the posts.
But really I'd guess that anyone who doesn't think it'd be worth paying something to be in the regular forums would probably be disappointed by what they'd find in the supporter's forum. I also think that the membership one of the best values I've ever purchased.
However I would join if I could (when Amex is accepted directly).
I still feel a free taster of X number of days for members who have over X number of posts is a great idea, it would be a little like seeing the menu in a restaurant. If you like what you see and enjoy the taste you are likely to return time and time again.
