Forum Moderators: open
questions i have for the guys that have been on both sides is
-how much more info there is on the other side since there is no refund?
-peeople that do join to the other side do they bother visiting "free" forum after or go straight to "paid"
i guess that would be it ;)
thanks guys
nermin, vancouver
I understand what you are saying about alternatives, but free days for X number of post = Spam post or Zero Content post just to get free days.
Maybe the option of $20 for a 1 day visit might be viable dollar wise but what seems as a substantial amount of money increases the probablility of Commited Users to the community. How commited are you to the industry?
Topics tend to stay on track in the supporter forums, more detailed topics covered and covered more accurately. This saves me more of my time sifting through all the post on the outside trying to put everything together as "I see it", which could be wrong. There are tips and suggestions on both sides that make it worth while.
Believe me, if what you get out of this forum makes the difference of one extra client, then that client recommends you to another, you owe much more then the yearly fee.
Either that or just send $2.00 for a beer to every posting member as a big thankyou.
Scott
I'm glad to know that everyone else dropped $149 with a smile on their face, though. It makes me feel more confident about some of my business plans.
I dropped more than that before Brett even had a behind-the-curtain Supporter's Forum. I didn't check my facial expression at the time. How does that affect your confidence in your business plans? ;)
lawman
>>all the online purchases I make
There is nothing to purchase; there is nothing being sold. There are no classes, there's no curriculum, it's not a school. We could easily do one, but we don't. It's not tuition. There is not a show going on; with today's technology we could easily do online conferences, but we don't. There's no admission charge.
It's not a purchase of anything whatsoever, it's a contribution. It began as voluntary donations without a specified amount, then there was a suggested amount, if I remember correctly. Then the terminology was changed from donations to contributions with a set amount. A voluntary contribution - not a purchase. There's a difference.
My understanding is that the Supporters forum is an extra special feature provided to serve member needs in appreciation of those who have shown their appreciation and committed themselves to the efforts here enough to voluntarily contribute to the ongoing support and maintenance of the board.
That's how I see it and understand it.
What I meant was whenever I spend any money online.
Doesn't matter what it is for when I spend money online I will only spend money where I can pay directly with Amex without going through a third party.
I can see the value in have an exclusive forum as a lot of senior members were for a long time getting annoyed at the constant and ever increasing influx of newbie questions that have been answered time and time again.
The solution to that noise was the supporters forum.
Everyone who donated money to WW before the subscriptions were introduced were the people who truely supported this forum.
Glossing a subscription fee as being a noble and justifiable expenditure is nothing more clever marketing or niavity on the part of those who advocate it.
It's a business move plain and simple. You pay for a service that has largely only perceived benefits, as the core service is largely the same as its free counterpart.
If the soul aim for the supporters forum was to create an environment where members could post without noise and discuss more open topics, then this could have been acheived through developing existing areas of the site. But the choice was made to monetise the forum and the supporters forum was introduced.
I fully intended to dontate to the site when I could afford it, but I run free sites (like I said, I think information should be free for everyone) so I still cant afford it! I also considered subscribing, for no reason other than to participate in the discussions that are there.
But frankly I dont like the way it's being "sold" to me. By this I mean, the way other members are selling it as a way of supporting the community (ie a semi guilt trip) and offhand comments about discussions (ie piquing curiosity).
Sorry, but that's just hype - and I dont buy hype. :-/
I support the community by contributing posts. They may not always be any good, but I think at least some have been useful and served to help people or foster discussions.
At the very least they have added content to the forum, and probably resulted in a few extra visitors from our friendly neighbourhood SE's over the past year.
Lurker's owe the community and should pay something back. Regular contributors (ie those from years back - multiple k's of posts) made this community and owe nothing back.
There's also something about the clique nature of private forums I dont like. There are tonnes of people who could add a great deal to discussions, but cant afford to join the forum. Who loses out there?
That's the ned of my ramble! :) Please ignore! ;)
Scott
How do you know that the people who where here from the start has to pay?
I agree with you that it's the user who builds the forum. But the amount of time it's taken to build this forum just can't slip past my mind.
And i'm not going to try to sell the supporters forum, all i can say if you wonder why you should buy a subscription and have doubts about it, my personal opinion is that you should probaby not buy it then.
It's something "you get"
You see you know when you should subscribe it's something you feel.
Anyone who has met and spent some time with Brett will understand it so easily.
I can say with a 99,9% that i've cost more in bandwidth than i have given in fee's to WebmasterWorld
I think people miss that there is other costs around it too.
And I also believe that Brett is well within his rights to generate income (or even just an attempt to cover some costs) through the forum. Moreover, coming from a business background, I fully support that.
Plus, if anyone were to deny the value of WW I would be first to step in and argue otherwise (indeed, I almost registered on the SearchKing forums for that very purpose! ;) But the forums were a bit quiet, so I thought I would just let them bicker amongst themselves! ;)).
I just feel that the way the members here have been plugging the supporters forum is way too hyped. It's just my opinion - im pretty cynical when I comes to stuff like this.
I like to see hard black and white, tangible benefits to stuff I pay for, and I cant see that with the supporters forum.
I dont mind the newbie questions. I dont mind the noise. It's all part of being part of a large community. I would like to participate in some of the other discussions I see posted on the homepage, but I really dont feel I should have to pay for that.
I can see why folks would disagree with my views there, but I fully advocate free speech and free information and my cynical view of marketing messages have formed my opinion on this. :)
Scott
Information should be free for everyone and communities can easily be supported by donations.
Easily? Sorta like voluntary income taxes could easily be collected. :)
Nevertheless, no one at WW can compel anyone else to turn loose of their hard-earned cash. The problem is raising funds without looking like a sell-out. Thus the perq of the Supporter's Forum for those who donate at a certain level.
However, there's no need to pony up $149 just to get in supporters. If you'd like to see the free part of WW continue in it's present form, whenever you can afford it, just send a check for whatever amount you can easily afford. That way you can follow through on your original intention without looking like you're selling out to the clique.
Scott
Another benefit I noticed is the generosity of subscribers to others. One offers his SEO-related product free to fellow subscribers. I had a ticket to SES that I could not use and I gave it away to another subscriber who was able to fulfill my role.
I paid up just when I had been laid off for some weeks and hadn't signed up my first client. I signed up for six months and I wish I had signed for the whole year. The US dollar was nearly twice as valuable as our Aussie dollar so it's a big hit, but the knowledge I acquired here (both sides) has recouped my subscription investment on my first day.
I like to see hard black and white
There is more money to be made in gray.
My hobby is computer music-making; What I did was to trawl over past threads where people had stated music tastes and put together a mix of those tunes but the killer USP was that I also hunted down all the memorable humorous threads that inevitably crop up.
What I then did was to - through the magic of text-to-speech software - transcribe those threads into MP3 and lace them throughout CD so that it was a personal experience of the highlights of the forum.
During the production of all this, I invented a character called "Star-maker" and periodically appeared on the forum dropping seeds like, 'I love this forum and have decided to make you all famous'.
Well this stimulated the curiousity of members and a 'Who is Star-maker' mystery hunt ensued.
When production was finished, the project was announced and CD's were offered for sale with all proceeds going into the survival fund - It was a huge success and will probably be repeated later on this year too...due to popular demand I hasten to add!
Contributing quality content to a forum does indeed make it "sticky" and couldn't survive without it but that alone doesn't guarantee it's survival.
The experience of our forum showed that when threatened with extinction, regular members soon realise just how important a part of their lives the community has become - It is a strength of a community when those that can support it financially, do so even for those that can't.
Both sides of the financial coin need each other but ultimately, the heavier side of the coin is the final arbiter.
We're also currently polling the membership over having a subscription area too - I don't personally hold up much hope as I don't think we have the critical mass enjoyed by WW and I also think a "them" and "us" conspiracy theory will develop, or, as someone has already touted, an "elitist" environment.
It works here though and I think the very fact that it's obscured from public view is by it's very nature a selling point...and what's wrong with that? Every sales proposition needs a sales angle!
<final-note>There are still members that scratch their heads over just who Star-maker was ;)
To book Star-maker for your forum, telephone... ;¬)
[edited by: TheWhippinpost at 3:19 pm (utc) on Aug. 22, 2003]
I dropped more than that before Brett even had a behind-the-curtain Supporter's Forum. I didn't check my facial expression at the time. How does that affect your confidence in your business plans?
yes absolutely correct, the whole point is that the "private" forum was mooted and created as a place to hang out for those that just made a donation/s under the old system and got NOTHING extra for it.
the concept has since expanded to include "paying" members too.
Information should be free
The whole, "we owe it to WW to pay" is not convincing. I agree that the owner of this site can operate any way they would like, but the other members in the exclusive club hyping it and using guilt as a motivator really makes me cringe.
[edited by: mat_bastian at 5:24 pm (utc) on Aug. 22, 2003]
Because we get threads asking what the discussions are behind the curtian. It gives you a window.
If you don't think it is worth it then don't pay. At no time was free content shielded in a password protected area needing a subscription to access. It is still the same WebmasterWorld out here.
I suppose Brett likes to make a buck, just like anyone else? Other than comparing it to hobby boards, board self-promotion and 3rd-party advertising at WebmasterWorld is pretty much at rock-bottom levels.
>Seriously, what you're getting as far as content isn't a whole lot different from what you get "on this side." As others have said, the noise level is a little lower and the post volume is a lot lower.
That pretty much covers it. 99.5% of the info is out here ...somewhere. About the only significant difference is that posting an url or domain when discussing a script or app is easier. We do get an early warning or breaking news every now and then, but even those are more of "advanced analysis of the facts as we see them" based on what's readily available out here.
Access to the private supporters forum. It is made up of some of the best professionals in the business in a more relaxed atmosphere. An ad free environment if we should add advertising. 25% off the cover price at all WebmasterWorld hosted conferences.
Not only do you have access to the supporters forum, you also get 25% off the cover price at PubCons, that can be a sizable savings.
Also, moderation is slim to none in the supporters forum. Stuff that we don't discuss out here is discussed back there. I'll bring up the SEO/SEM Tools thread, that in itself was probably worth a 6 month membership fee. You won't get that information on the public side due to the stringent guidelines that are in place to prevent promotion.
If you cannot afford to subscribe, it's no biggy. You'll just miss out on a few tidbits here and there, nothing major. ;) Or is there?
It is an arbitrary amount, intended to support the financial costs of this site which (at one time) Brett incurred alone.
If you feel like contributing ... contribute. If you don't feel like contributing or can't afford to, don't. WebmasterWorld is still here for your use!
How hard is it to make a personal choice?
I guess never. It was just my opinion of what the internet *should* be for. Ill go sit my idealistic ass in a quiet corner somewhere I dont bother people anymore. :-/
>Those of you who want something for free need not pay up, those of you who appreciate what Brett has done for us all, well, you know what to do.
This is the kind of attitude that put me off subscribing. Pay up or you are an ungrateful freeloader. It is absurd to suggest that just because people dont pay up they are unappreciative.
We all know the achievements WW has made, and at least have a grasp of what it has taken to get there - that is not in question.
I thought (from past threads) that the main aim of the private forum was to weed out the yard trash and not specifically make income.
Hence, the common opinion that discussions there have less noise, etc etc.
That was a solution to a problem that WW had near the peak of the Google update era - loads of new members, most with opinions and theories and questions - it made true discussions impossible.
Therefore by imposing a fee for a private forum, those members who wanted a quiet place to discuss stuff could have one.
My beef is the way that a lot of members are pushing it - like its something we owe in return for all the great information at WW.
But we dont. Those who *can* and *want* to support the forum will do so. Those who want to but cant may do so at a later date.
Scott
Now, I do agree with that. I don't begrudge the teaser (didn't I see a new custom 404 the other day?) or the subscribe button, but there has been some, ummm, overly-patriotic zeal on occassion.
Really, it's all out here ...just harder to find or piece together sometimes.
My beef is the way that a lot of members are pushing it - like its something we owe in return for all the great information at WW.
I agree that "some" members have a tendency to do that. They are only trying to show their support for WebmasterWorld and to help take the financial burden off Brett. Don't take it personally!
To be honest, if everyone joins the forum ... then the benifits (less noise, etc.) will disappear overnight! ;)
If you feel like contributing ... contribute. If you don't feel like contributing or can't afford to, don't. WebmasterWorld is still here for your use!
That pretty much sums it up, Liane.
Ill go sit my idealistic ass in a quiet corner somewhere I dont bother people anymore. :-/
Hey - No pouting!:):)
