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Germany - Deutschland: SEARCH ENGINES #2 [locked and continued]

17 search engines

     
8:49 pm on Nov 7, 2000 (gmt 0)

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Continued from here [webmasterworld.com]

Do YOU know the answer behind ANY of the question marks below?
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As we say in Sweden: Tack!

Germany - Deutschland. Search engines.
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): de
Online population: 15,9 million (July 2000)
Native language(s): German
Understanding of English: Very high
Hosts in domain: 1,9 million (Jul 2000)
Pages in language: 9,9 million (Sep 2000, all domains)
Pages in domain: 9,6 million (Sep 2000, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Yes
Multiple domains allowed: Yes
Professional help: See bottom of page

Known general search engines:

Abacho [abacho.com]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Abadoor [abadoor.com]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: Onle one page per domain, will not spider others. Similar to directory. Other: Max url length: 42 characters. Maximum 12 pages per domain.

Acoon [acoon.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: NO Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: yes Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: No Other: Keyword density is the most important factor. Flooding and repetition observed to be accepted.

Altavista Deutschland [de.altavista.com]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: AltaVista
Meta description used in search replies: YesThings that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Link popularity. Theme based indexing. Date: Older better.

AOL [aol.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 3,9 mill page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ?
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Belissima - see Abacho

Columbus finder discontinued.

Crawler.de [crawler.de] see Abacho

Excite [excite.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 15 mill page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Fireball [fireball.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 10,8 mill pageviews/month (research)/30 mill (own figures) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Altavista
Meta description used in search replies: Yes Things that help ranking: Local language: Mandatory Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes, big. Keyword in title: Yes, boost if title=url. Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: No Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: No Other: Fireball reads additional meta tags indication a.o. language, audience and subject. Found in help pages. Likes high keyword density. and newer pages before older. Links and link text important.

Infoseek [infoseek.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: Germany's #1 search engine with 30.8 mill page views/month + traffic from T-online Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: Yes, and keywords too.
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Not much Keyword in meta keywords: yes Keyword in header: yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Also on main page of T-online, Germany's öeading portal with 47,6 mill unique visitors/month.

Lotse - see Speedfind

Nathan [nathan.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Lycos Deutschland [lycos.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 36,6 mill page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Direct Hit + Fast Meta description used in search replies: No
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: no Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: No Keyword in meta keywords: No Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Kwd on ALT-tags. Kwd location: High preferred. First three results from own directory, following 5-6 from DirectHit, rest from spidered index, a change to Fast is expected, but not implemented per Dec 1, 2000.

MSN [msn.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 3,4 million page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Inktomi Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Speedfind [speedfind.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes, one line description, one line keywords, several line text from page.
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: Yes Keyword in URL: No Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Tigersuche [tigersuche.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Oen spidered index supplemented by secondary results from Altavista, Fast, Fireball and Google. Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Local people who can help with translations and advise:

Ulrich Wisser, luna-park GmBH. Traffic analyses, SEO and translations into German. u.wisser@luna-park.de

This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.

The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.

Updated Jan 26, 2001

Edited by: rencke

jan zandbergen

11:31 am on Feb 10, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Hallo all, I am looking for names and info on german search engine spiders. for example
from Alta vista.de, exite.de, fireball.de, infoseek.de, lycos germany, yahoo.de and others who generate a lot of traffic.
German translation: Hallo alle, wer kan mich Info uber Deutsche Suchmachinen beschaffen. Zum beispiel uber Namen und ip-addressen.
Nur die meist gebrauchten sind interessant fur mich

3:26 pm on Feb 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Well rencke
Boris "Bobele" Becker was the star of a TV commercial for AOL, where late at night, instead of going to Babs he installed aol software, finally commenting with a surprised look: "Ich bin ja drin!"
This quickie for sure weighed out the one in London.
Thanks for your advice, rencke and oLeon, I just thought there was a special way to deal with aol.de. Iīm aiming at the german speaking market only.
Concerning lycos vs. google: yes, exactly the same keywords! And traffic coming from google is 5 times higher!
5:02 pm on Feb 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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>traffic coming from google is 5 times higher!

In spite of lower rankings! Lycos.de was the #5 German site for Germans and Lycos.com the #6 international site for Germans in December 2000 according to MMXI. Can anyone explain this mystery?

>with a surprised look: "Ich bin ja drin!"

I wonder if that's what he said in that cleaning closet in London? (But I guess we should not speculate about that, since this is a family oriented forum.)

Schlitzer

11:48 am on Feb 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Hi,
good to see the german SE part covered here.

I just want to add that fireball now crawls and lists individual frame pages. Haven`t seen this before with my framed pages since the last year (or did kit always behave like this?)

In addition, I would like to take the opportunity to complain a bit over the fireball algo. As already mentioned in the fireball description on the starting post "likes newer pages before older", this is definitely still true and appears to be THE major factor for ranking. It`s a kind of "Zuckerbrot und Peitsche", especially for single keyword searches. Fireball ranks recently spidered pages (or resubmitted pages) in the top 10 to top 100, though there is only ONE appearance of the search word among hundreds in text body. Obviously this leads often to most ridiculous search results. On the webmaster point of view you might be happy with this kind of algo, just resubmitting every second day. Personally, however, I would never use fireball for a query.

rencke,
sorry I cannot answer your question concerning lycos. Lycos uses this most annoying kind of ip recognition. Even more, it seems not possible from Germany to do a Lycos.com search. As soon as you hit the search button on lycos.com, you will be directed to lycos.de. Of course, there are ways to by-pass this, but the average internet user just won`t bother (and will never see my lovely lycos.com/fast results).

By the way...
I am waiting now for 4 months to be indexed in lycos.de with a new site. Anybody here with the same problem? Your help would be highly appreciated. Thank you.

6:25 pm on Feb 7, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Hi, do you know the german meta engine hurra.de? They offer a pay for keywords program Goto style and I'm wondering if they can send serious traffic. I've never heard of them before..

Thank you!!

Alex

6:28 pm on Feb 7, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Ooops, I started a new topic, instead of posting a reply in "Germany". Sorry! Perhaps someone could move this message...
6:58 pm on Feb 7, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Willkommen zu WebmasterWorld und zum European forum, Alex.

I and my fellow moderators hope that you will like this place. It is like a "University of Search Engine Optimization and Webmaster Techniques", with an enormous amount to read - at present more than 25.000 posts.

Please take a moment to view the charter [webmasterworld.com], where you will find information about the European forum. Because of its special fact finding nature, it has more than 40 continuously ongoing discussions - one for each country. In order to vew them all, you will need to set the list box at the bottom of the forum menu page to "Show All Post". Or just click here [webmasterworld.com].

You will find more information about this forum in the charter [webmasterworld.com]and in the Moderator's chat room [webmasterworld.com]. The latter is also available in - German [webmasterworld.com], French [webmasterworld.com], Italian [webmasterworld.com], Spanish [webmasterworld.com] and Swedish [webmasterworld.com].

A couple of tips: there are two useful features here at WebmasterWorld, not commonly found in other discussion fora: flags and e-mail notifications. When you see a discussion of particular interest to you, you can click "Drop flag" at the bottom of the page, and the url to the discussion will then be saved in your own local bookmark file, which you can view by clicking "flags" at the top of each page. You can also subscribe to e-mail messages each time something is added to a forum or to a discussion. From the forum menu, just click on "E-mail Updates" to subscribe to updates for the entire forum. From inside a discussion you click on "E-mail notification" to subscribe to updates for that discussion only. There is also a new and very fast site search, which will help you to find what you are looking for.

If you are new to SEO (search engine optimization) there are two classical discussions that I recommend you to read: "One size fits all SEO" [webmasterworld.com] and "Thou shalt not..." [webmasterworld.com]

And now to your question:

I have never heard of Hurra.de and they are not listed by alba36.com, which has an enourmous list of over 1200 European search engines. I checked it out and noticed that they call themselves "information brokers". As far as I can understand, they expect people to pay for an answer and will themselves pay the people who provide the answer. I looked at some questions and answers and noticed that the persons who asked the questions could have gotten the answers for free instantly from any normal search engine or from any discussion group.

They do offer the possibillity to search the web via any of several leading engines, but none of these is their own. I could not find any GoTo style keywords program though, although I was looking for it. The way it looks to me, Hurra.de is more like a directory with a discussion board. I am not sure I would call it a search engine. Perhaps our learned German members can explain, just what this is.

Don't worry about the new thread. I will have it spliced onto Germany #2 when this discussion has run its course.

7:27 pm on Feb 7, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Hi Rencke,

thanks for the warm welcome! I've been lurking for some time, but now I decided to participate :-)

Concerning hurra.de and ppc:

There's a link on their homepage that says "Keyword-Werbung".

The direct URL is [ssl.hurra.de...]

I hope that soon there'll be a major SE that offers a ppc program. I'm using Goto at the moment for german keywords, but they don't send much traffic of course.

Another small ppc SE is www.cyfind.de Perhaps someone knows this one?

If I try one of these SE, I'll post my results here.

Later, Alex

10:45 am on Feb 8, 2001 (gmt 0)

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>There's a link on their homepage that says "Keyword-Werbung".

Thanks. I found it. Very discreet link. I must say I am wondering if Germany is ready for this. Or Europe for that matter. The way things are here, you can make it to the first page for almost any keyword just with the help of good basic SEO practises, as taught at WebmasterWorld. So why pay? This happy state of affairs is not going to last forever, but the PPC engines still have to build traffic for themselves and form alliances with the big engines to sell their service.

There has been a lot of speculation that GoTo will lose their deals with the major search engines if the PPC plan works out well. They might as well do it themselves then. And where does that leave GoTo, which is certainly not a major engine used by very many?

Cyfind was discussed briefly here:
[webmasterworld.com...]

I hope we can hear opinions on this from the German SEO-professionals who are members of WebmasterWorld. Let's hope they turn up.

drnosugar

10:34 am on Feb 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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I have found a bit of success from goto , findwhat and since my product aims at a european market UK , germany etc, I am planning to list on the european PPCs as well.

But one very important feature missing in the new PPC Search engines is the Search Suggestion Tool like goto which lists :
relevant search terms and number of searches in a month. I think this is very vital before I open account with any of them

Does anybody know any good UK search engine except goto which has a tool like that?

Regards

DrNoSugar

5:09 pm on Feb 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Welcome to the European forum and to WebmasterWorld DrNoSugar.

I and my fellow moderators hope that you will like this place. It is like a "University of Search Engine Optimization and Webmaster Techniques", with an enormous amount to read - at present more than 25.000 posts.

Please take a moment to view the charter [webmasterworld.com], where you will find information about the European forum. Because of its special fact finding nature, it has more than 40 continuously ongoing discussions - one for each country. In order to view them all, you will need to set the list box at the bottom of the forum menu page to "Show All Post". Or just click here [webmasterworld.com].

A couple of tips: there are two useful features here at WebmasterWorld, not commonly found in other discussion fora: flags and e-mail notifications. When you see a discussion of particular interest to you, you can click "Drop flag" at the bottom of the page, and the url to the discussion will then be saved in your own local bookmark file, which you can view by clicking "flags" at the top of each page. You can also subscribe to e-mail messages each time something is added to a forum or to a discussion. From the forum menu, just click on "E-mail Updates" to subscribe to updates for the entire forum. From inside a discussion you click on "E-mail notification" to subscribe to updates for that discussion only. There is also a new and very fast site search, which will help you to find what you are looking for.

If you are new to SEO (search engine optimization) there are two classical discussions that I recommend you to read: "One size fits all SEO" [webmasterworld.com] and "Thou shalt not..." [webmasterworld.com]

And now to your question: I don't think there is anything similar to the GoTo tool in the UK. But your question ended up in a discussion about a specific German PPC engine, so the UK people who know the exact answer might not have read it. May I suggest that you make a try in the UK & Ireland forum right here [webmasterworld.com].

9:19 am on Feb 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Guten Morgen Herr Doktor Schlitzer.

>fireball now crawls and lists individual frame pages
If you have the links to those pages in the NOFRAMES area of the FRAMESET, then that would be normal behaviour for any search engine. But if, on the other hand, the only links are found in the frameset definition itself, then this would seem to be something new. Could you tell us which?

>"likes newer pages before older"
Spammers' paradise. They probably think it will help them to present the latest news and be really up to date. But do you really have to submit every two days? How often do they update their index? Other than date, keyword in url and in title is very important as well as a 30% keyword density (!!!).

PS If you wonder about all the posts between yours and this, they come from a separate discussion that was spliced into this one yesterday.

Schlitzer

10:30 am on Feb 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Goog morning europe,

>fireball now crawls and lists individual frame pages

There are NO links to those pages in the NOFRAMES area of the FRAMESET. Kit seems to behave like Fast or Google.
I am using framed doorways, and fireball now indexed my 1% frame pages. It actually forced me to rewrite the frame page content. On the psycholgical point of view I don`t mind someone is looking at the source code and sees keyword stuffing. But a direkt link from the SE to keyword stuffed nonsense pages is too embarassing.

By doing a search for
"This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them." there are still many NOFRAMES pages found. However these are older ones. I am used to place a unique nonsense word in the noframes part. Normally fireball brings the frameset page up by doing a search for that word. This doesn`t work with my recrawled frameset pages anymore. Thus, they might have dropped the Noframes support, but I cannot say for sure now.

A resubmitted or new submitted page appears the next day or the day after in the fireball index. For a targeted two word phrase you have to resubmit according to my experience every fourth day to stay on the top. But this depends on how competetive the phrase is.

11:07 am on Feb 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

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>But a direkt link from the SE to keyword stuffed nonsense pages is too embarassing.
I guess you had better start reading up on cloaking then? :)

>"This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them."
Yes, and keep in mind that other HTML editors use a slightly different phrase, that one is Front Page I think. There are millions of these around and many are very new. I have a customer who used the contry's biggest and most expensive web design outfit. That's what they had right on the index page and on several frames further down in the site! They had charged millions (in sek) for the job!

>appears the next day or the day after in the fireball index
So, it really is spammers paradise then... Note also what oLeon wrote in this thread:
[webmasterworld.com...]

8:56 am on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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numbers from jan 2001:
Fireball: Visits-30.478.823 PageImpr-114.544.954
Infoseek: Visits-22.577.382 PageImpr-76.580.755
AOL.de-Homepage: Visits-6.361.886 PageImpr-48.345.287

<appears the next day or the day after in the fireball index>
<likes newer pages before older>
Fireball is the fastest engine in Germany, indeed, no doubt about it. And it prefers newer pages, so thatīs why itīs used gladly by spammers, also no doubt about.
Recently it changed their "Live-Anmeldung" (where you could see what was submitted in the moment) to "Live-Update" (where you now see, what is updated in the moment, i.e. what is picked up into the index just in this moment) due to the abuse of adult-spammers who submitted bulks of pages only to appear in "Live-Anmeldung" cause they know these pages would never get into the index.
(FB has got a filter: no sexual content is accepted)

<For a targeted two word phrase you have to resubmit according to my experience every fourth day to stay on the top.>
I agree. The more competetive, the more you have to submit, perhaps daily.

Schlitzer

10:59 am on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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oLeon,
that is interesting information about FB. The bulk of adult orientated spam in "Live-Anmeldungen" was always to my utter amazement. However, I cannot find "Live-Update". May be they`ve done some experiments with it and switched back. Today, FB offers the known "Live-Anmeldungen".

<FB has got a filter: no sexual content is accepted.>
Hmmm...A search for the F-word leads to some pretty explicite results. Also, the provided search related banner ads are promising as well. Furthermore, FB has an own adult category with content not for the shy ones.

This looks like a rather permissive adult filter to me :)

12:33 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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oLeon
you must be joking: fireball is filled to the brim with porn, no doubt about that. Just type in something like "Geschichten", that will do the trick. Fireball should very soon adopt at least some rudimental protection against spam. They are going to loose their relevance fast this way.
12:57 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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On the AddURL-Page thereīs a link to "Live-Update" - I donīt mean the link to "Live-Suche" on the top in the navigation-list.

Oh yes, I know, that the filters arenīt that good to protect the index against p***-spam. And I know that they have some big problems with irrelevant results in its listings. Which engine donīt have these problems? Theyīre working on it...

<<Also, the provided search related banner ads are promising as well. Furthermore, FB has an own adult category with content not for the shy ones.>>
The related banners, okay, itīs a questions about the buisness-model, and - I donīt think FB is that stupid - the most people search after s**-keywords, why not earn money with that?
The category is edited by human-beings without possibility to submit to it.

Schlitzer

1:25 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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<On the AddURL-Page thereīs a link to "Live-Update">

I am struck with blindness and cannot find it there. oLeon, as I am interested in this new feature, would you mind to post the FB link to "Live-Update" here?
Thank you.

1:39 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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some days are to hard to keep alive...

<On the AddURL-Page thereīs a link to "Live-Update">

I mean: AFTER youīve submitted a page, the link [fireball.de] appears.

Schlitzer

1:53 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Thank you,

and you are right, there is a striking discrepancy between the amount of adult sites here in comparison to the bulk of p-pages at "Live-Anmeldungen".

Actually I haven`t spot an offensive site there yet, so the link seems to be family friendly.

3:07 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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Interesting info here.

heini: Searched for "Geschichten" as you suggested. It seems that the word has taken on a new meaning since my school-days. I thought a German SE would rank the de-domain higher than other, but apparantely the ch-domain is just as good (and you don't need local presence for a Swiss domain) That was news to me - useful news indeed.

oLeon: The figure for Infoseek does not seem to include traffic from T-online. Another 47 million pageviews(?).

The Live update that you linked to is incredible. I have never seen anything like that anywehere else in the world. There must be an enormous amount of submissions going on at Fireball all the time. Is that because many have discovered the importance of frequent re-submission do you think? I wouldn't have thought that an SEO-trick like that would be common knowledge, though. I suppose that what we see on that page is the title of the pages submitted, right?

3:56 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

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This discussion is now so long that it has become difficult to load over a normal modem. It is continued
here [webmasterworld.com].
This 53 message thread spans 2 pages: 53