Forum Moderators: open
Poland - Polska
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): pl, .com.pl
Online population: 2,8 million (7,3%) (July 2000)
Native language(s): Polish
Understanding of English: ?
Hosts in domain: 260.000 (Jul 2000)
Pages in language: 2,7 million (2,5 in pl-domain) (Sep 2000, all domains)
Pages in domain: 3,7 million (2,5 in Polish language) (Sep 2000, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Local contact address needed
Multiple domains allowed: Yes
Professional help: See bottom of page
Known general search engines:
Ahoj [ahoj.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #10 Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Using Google's main index. Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Portal.
Altavista.com is #5 in Poland. (Most visited site for 3% in dec 2000)
Arena [szukaj.arena.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #6 in Poland. (Most visited site for 2% in dec 2000) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes (Others on request, but must be in Polish) Search technology: Infoseek Meta description used in search replies: Yes, default. (Can be changed)
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Things that worked in Altavista 3 years ago observed to work well in Arena.
Gazeta [gazeta.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #6 in Poland. (Most visited site for 2% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Altavista Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?
Interia [szukaj.interia.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #4 in Poland. (Most visited site for 3% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes Search technology: Altavista Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: New fast server
Netoskop [poland.com]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #9 in Poland. (Most visited site for 1% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: Yes (Exceptions listed here [netoskop.poland.com])
Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes (short names observed to rank higher) Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Yes, whole header family. Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Keyword density, placement and proximity important. Keyword in links count. Netoskop only engine to support Polish character set (ISO8859-2) Index of 5 million pages appr.=100%
onet.pl [onet.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #1 in Poland. (Most visited site for 32%, 224 mill page views in dec 2000) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes No. of categories allowed per site: editor discretion Search method: Polish pages (default)(powered by Infoseek), Directory, World search (powered by Altavista with option for Google.)
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: .pl only Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes
Other: Database size: 7 million pages in database, 250.000 listings in volunteer powered directory.
RMF FM [rmf.fm]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #8 in Poland. (Most visited site for 1% in dec 2000)[color=#CE0000] ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: [color=#CE0000]Altavista Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Portal.
Known general directories:
Czas Na Links [cnl.tonet.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: 4000 unique visitors per month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
Hoga [www.hoga.pl]
Language interface: English, Polish Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
PolishWorld [polishworld.com]
Language interface: English, Polish Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
Wirtualna Polska [wp.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #2 in Poland. (Most visited site for 319% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: In directory only Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: 5 Search method: 1. Directory search, 2. Web via Fast index, 3. World via Inktomi. Also: ftp, mp3, shopping and .pl newsgroup searching.
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
WOW! [wow.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: Features about 20.000 links.
Yahoo.com is the #3 site in Poland (Most visited site for 3% in dec 2000)
Local people who can help with translations and advise:
This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.
The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.
Updated Jan 24, 2001
Edited by: rencke
Edited by: rencke
Arena [szukaj.arena.pl]
[1]Language interface: Polish only Traffic volume: Unknown at this time Local language(s) required: Polish only Local domain(s) only: .pl only Search technology: Powered by Infoseek Meta description used in search replies: yes by default (toggle available)
Things that help ranking: <scientific_explanation> Turn back the clock about 3 years on pages ranked well in AV, translate, get a .pl domain and submit away...:)</scientific_explanation>
Notes:
Exists since april 2000 and claims to be #3 in brand recognition. Offers usual portal services.
Indexes .pl only due to licencing issues. Sites outside of .pl added by request only (must have Polish content). Supports +, -, url:, link:, title:, author: as well as "". Obeys robots.txt and noindex,nofollow. Emailed the techs to get a figure on traffic and invited them in.
Things that help ranking:
As per their help page, keywords in domain, meta tags and keywords within links have significance. <H?> family, keyword density, placement and proximity are also given a lot of weight. Short domain names are ranked higher.
Interesting advanced search arrangement allows the results to be sorted by keyword density, placement and proximity as well as link popularity (...and even by length of the URL...)
It also supports a somewhat unusual "@ function" that searches within a domain (think of the possibilities :) (i.e. "bartek @webmasterworld.com" would find all my posts here).
Notes:
Ne+oskop has been operating since 1996 and is the only SE to fully support the Polish charset (ISO 8859-2). While the technology is proprietary, they do mention involvement of Trondheim University in Norway (where FAST was born).
Searches supposedly support boolean logic (although the effort to get the DB size by using the ol' "search or not search" trick produced an error). Exact match is the default for "normal" searches.
Ne+oskop claims to be environmentally friendly and not tested on animals.
During my half year as temporary managing director of a Polish company, I didn't pick up more than a couple of words - all the 200+ staff spoke good English, some of them even Swedish and were so anxious to practise their skills on me, that I never got a chance. (I have since forgotten "Good Morning", which I did learn.)
I am looking forward to seeing your 'baby steps' and will update the main list later today.
Re: Netoskop. This is a regular search engine, right? Read the links list you linked to and couldn't see anything about how one gets on that list. (Polish dot-coms who have begged for mercy? Or paid their way? What do you think?)
Keep it coming!
I also received an email from the project manager with some additional details. They currently have 5 million pages indexed and have no plans to expand beyond .pl. They will index pages in other languages as long as they sit on a .pl domain.
They're working on implementing sorting results by language as well as an English interface for November. He would not disclose the traffic numbers.
Netoskop: 5 million pages in Polish, eh? Altavista shows 2,15 mill pages for the language and 3,2 mill for the domain. So one can assume then, that Netoskop has a 100% complete index of sites in Poland and sites in Polish. And intends to keep it that way. That is excellent info Pan Bartek!
Keep it coming.
>So one can assume then, that Netoskop has a 100% complete index of sites in Poland and sites in Polish.
Netoskop certainly seems to be providing good coverage. It would probably be wise to tune the pages for them if you're in the market. I wonder why they keep their visitor numbers secret - most SE's like to brag about market share.
Wirtualna Polska [wp.pl]
[1]Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: 900.000 uniques/month (May 2000) Local language(s) required: For Web Directory only Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: up to 5 Search methods: Directory search (default), Webpages (powered by Fast), World (powered by Inktomi). Also features FTP, MP3, shopping and .pl newsgroup searches
Notes:
Established in 1995 - employee-powered directory. Submission procedures and even the interface clearly modeled on guesshoo.
Directory traffic tops 8 million hits/month. Big on ecommerce (100,000 items) and WAP services. Unable to find Add Url for the Fast-powered webpages. All of the matches come from .pl domains although pages in other languages are also indexed. World searches return generic Ink.
Wirtualna Polska: With all that web search, I guess I should move this one to the heading "Known general search engines" and make a note that they have a Polish directory as well. I suppose that the absence of an add url page for Fast means that their are using their index "as is". That is not a bad idea, considering what Fast is showing for Poland right now:
2,7 million pages in Polish of which 2,5 in the pl-domain an 0,2 in other domains.
3,7 million pages in the pl-domain, of which 2,5 in Polish and 1,2 in other languages.
That's a lot more than the figures I got from Altavista and published: 2,15 for language and 3,2 for domain. This will go into the update as well.
With this impressive setup and a paid staff for the directory, I would venture the guess that Wirtualna Polska is the leading SE in Poland. What do you think? (Might explain why Netoskop is keeping their figures secret.)
>Directory traffic tops 8 million hits/month.
Hits=pageviews in this context? Surely they are not measuring hits for graphics?
Something for people interested in Fast. Go to www.alltheweb.com. Click Advanced search. Set language to Polish and click search (no search phrase in box.) Observe first page results and compare to list of Polish SE:s and Dir:s above. Then tell me that Fast doesn't pay attention to linkage. ;)
Their flagship product (and source of pride judging by their press releases - is the directory. I'm guessing since the searches default to the directory it might be more accurately classified as a directory.
>With this impressive setup and a paid staff for the directory, I would venture the guess that Wirtualna Polska is the leading SE in Poland. What do you think? (Might explain why Netoskop is keeping their figures secret.)
I think 80% of the arena is dominated by 3 players; Netoskop, Wirtualna Polska and Onet (which I haven't been able to connect to...I'll keep trying).
So far I'm most impressed with Netoskop's search capabilities - the horsepower is already there - and with the new English interface in the works these guys seem to be ready for some serious growth.
Wirtualna Polska seems to be more portal-oriented, about to make the same mistake most of the SE's here made when they got brave.
The traffic numbers I posted come from their press releases - no specific details but very impressive for Joe Investor...:D
I just noticed we don't have [dmoz.org...] in directories... There are 57,193 sites listed and it looks like a local directory...
*duck*
That's a neat observation re: Fast; (For those who want to play and can't set Polish language in the dropbox, select Central European (ISO 8859-2).)
Wonder if your figure holds though. This is what www.dmoz.org is showing on their front page right now: 110 sites - 30,647 editors - -28,957 categories. Disk crash or lazy editors? ;)
Looking forward to hearing from you.
The ODP numbers quoted come from Top: World: Polska (57,193). ODP mentions maintenance and downtime behind editor screens, maybe that's why the numbers look funny.
Notes:
Searches currently powered by Infoseek although they mention switching to Inktomi. (Clicking on the "powered by infoseek" icon takes you to the Ultraseek website [ultraseek.com]:)).They will index .pl only and the DB is cluttered with tiny doorways that would never get passed the spam filters here. Add URL is available.
The volunteer-powered directory has 250,000 listings.
Onet claims to hold 60% of the market share and seems to focus on serving information. Their media search is quite impressive with a database of 4500 news sources and 1200 online publications.
Received a very friendly email from the author of Czas Na Links (Time for Links) with a rundown of the history of major players and how they evolved. No new tips on how to get listed better though. The most significant players are already listed; he also pointed that his undertaking is an amateur effort.
The only info on WOW! [wow.pl] I have is that they feature about 20,000 links and have been sitting near-dormant for the past while. I can't connect to them half the time :(
Most places I contacted seem to be *very* paranoid when asked about how they operate, traffic volume etc. At the same time, I think it is safe to assume that commercial SEO in this market is nearly non-existant.
As to Czas na Links I notice that they average about 4000 unique visitors per month and will update the main entry accordingly. WOW too.
Since we saw you last, a very big resource containing over 1200 search engines has been discovered - Alba36, probably the world's most comprehensive list. Their page on Poland [db.alba36.com] shows 30 engines, more than we have listed here. Do any of these ring a bell with you?
>commercial SEO in this market is nearly non-existant
I am sure you are right. The market is not there quite yet. Another couple of years I guess. Things move quickly in Poland though.
There is now an option to use Google's search, it appears after the AltaVista results are returned. Opens in a new window and is co-branded with Onet's logo, the query also runs through a cgi at Onet. Anyone seen this style of co-branding before?
>Searches currently powered by Infoseek although they mention switching to Inktomi.
I think this refers to the fact that Inktomi purchased the Ultraseek technology from Infoseek and not that Onet will be using Ink's dB.
Ultraseek overview [inktomi.com]
According to our e-mails I'm posting what I have at hand and working for a more readable summary
of SE market in Poland.
Forgive me my english and check it out:
Yes, Onet is the most popular portal in Poland so "their" Polish Infoseek is a good
target for submiters. This SE is spammed so much (they say you can't spam there
sic!) that without using advanced options its sometimes impossible to find anything
valuable. From the other hand, without a submiting and positioning strategy you can
forget about "reaching audience".
Here is the add url page: [szukaj.onet.pl...]
and here is the short review of what they said below Polish Infoseek logo:
(polish means that SE knows polish well )
SE index only polish sites on polish servers within 12-48 hours If you want to
submit polish site on polish server without .pl domain adress (except poland.com
wich is treated as polish) email them wyszukiwarka@onet.pl with your adress and
content review. Your page will be submit with some delay. At this second link
"sprawdz" (check) you can check after few days if it was indexed. "Wpisz adres"
means enter adress and "dodaj" means add ... and that's it.
So, it seems that without redirect site on polish server you do nothing.
Onet.pl has Altavista to search non polish sites. On the main page there is Infoseek search box. Below results you have option to search Altavista. Below search results there is option to search ... Google ! Even I don't know what's goinng on. When they bought Altavista technology (October 2000) you could heard about it everywhere but about Google there is still silence. Maybe it's a part of a game. Portal Ahoj.pl is proud of their Google.
So, as JanRencke posted above Altavista, Google and Fast are the best to reach us. As a Pole I can add NetSprint mentioned in my previous post. Note that it's all about TRAFFIC from rapidly growing number of users. Experienced searchers... it's a
diffrent story.
Generally, portals with their SEs and directories are the key to get traffic from
Poland (at this stage of our Internet economy- raising market). If you are
interested in horizontal portals - read this below if not - don't
I would be carefull with estimating the percentage of market share in Poland. There
is a hot discussion about Internet research quality in Poland. Last year was dominated with portals battle. The biggest polish companies (not only IT) entered this area and we have about 20 portals here! It's a quite funny commedy for anyone close to business. Onet.pl and Wirtualna Polska wp.pl) are the unquestionable leaders for years and Arena.pl and Interia.pl are chasing. This situation can change. Some of them will give up because 2-3 years of investing and no profit is scaring even to our giants Nobody can say how many places are to take but we still waiting for gazeta.pl (launching on February) from the biggest press publisher in Poland and for portal.pl (dissapointment of the year) from our Telecom monopolist TPSA. It's a quite funny battle for the dominance ... (without any foreign players - they will enter as partners). I recommend Onet.pl to my friends
and familly entering Internet. I think they can't loose their lead ... or maybe they are (like Interia.pl) from Cracow and that's why I recommend them
Thank you very much for your information on Onet. As mentioned above, Onet claims a 60% market share, which makes it extremely important to get into for anyone who wants to reach Polish people. From Marcin's info we can deduce that what you need for this is:
a) A site in Polish
b) An url in the .pl domain (all you need is an official contact address in Poland) and
c) Hosting on a Polish server.
I would guess, that there might be several Polish Internet providers willing to set this up for foreign customers, so the obstacles may not be so high. And finding local web translators should be quite easy (and inexpensive, Poland has a low cost level compared to western Europe).
Looking forward to hearing more from you Pan Marcin.
Dzieki!
If you really want numbers check this url:
[biznesnet.com.pl...]
BiznesNet.pl is the e-business web site focused on Polish Internet market. This is the 2nd page of the last market research made by OBOP (research made on November posted on 11 December). OBOP is a big institute making researches (ex. they make ellection polls).
What is interesting there is the progress of Internet users "spontanious" knowledge of brand.
Onet: August 36% September 42% October 51% ...and November 40% (Onet changed the strategy and started promoting "portal for e-generation")
Wirtualna Polska: VIII 25% IX 34% X 41% XI 40%
Then you have 3 lists. First is "using portal ever", 2nd is "using portal last month" and 3rd is "using portal most".
Note1: Internetia is the portal from ISP Netia (traffic mostly from clients) and with their poor content (for now) I see them in black comparing to Onet,WP,Interia and Arena
Note2: Panorama Firm is the on-line version of our "Yellow Pages".
And a few numbers from the first page of this report:
[biznesnet.com.pl...]
acces to Internet 16% (5 mln)
and 88% of them use Internet minimum once a month
70% last week and 21% use it everyday
Here is the most interesting for us: 45% found last visited page by SE !!!
...amazing isn't it?
and finally 6% use Internet to make purchases and 10% made purchase on-line
...to be honest - I DON'T BELIEVE IT :)
I always say: be carefull with this numbers.
Everyone is trying to show Poland as a big potential but we have serious problems
with mass and chip access to the Internet. It's the main reason stopping real ebusiness.
If you are more interested in Polish market I really recommend this web site:
www.viangel.com made by Maciej Janiec from Cracow.
Register in his e-group and read his report:
THE MAJOR TRENDS ON THE CENTRAL & EASTERN EUROPEAN INTERNET MARKET
Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary
Here is Janiec's another site :http://strony.poland.com/ebiz/
That's all for now. Next time I will try to tell you something about SEO oportunities and problems in Poland from my point of view.
>45% found last visited page by SE
That could be right, under certain special circumstances. But it does sound like a high figure. I wonder how they defined SE. (Some people include links pages in that.)
> 6% use Internet to make purchases and 10% made purchase on-line ...to be honest - I DON'T BELIEVE IT
Neither do I. Not with as many as 5 million Poles online. If it had been half a million, one might have concluded that the online population constitutes a small elite. But 5 million is a very sizeable percentage of the total adult population of Poland. Something is wrong here.
I apologize. I should post the direct link. Here it is:
[egroups.com...]
If you are new at eGroups register as a new member and then sign in. Unfortunatelly, this report is availible only that way. This is a good place for anyone interested in Polish Internet market because of the discussion in english and expert members joining the forum.
[viangel.com...] (remember to register for participate)
>Something is wrong here
I just presented figures from the research. I couldn't find any details on the OBOP research institute site [obop.com.pl...] -english version available. Personally, I think B2C e-commerce almost doesn't exist and people didn't understood question properly. It is a matter of time when experienced Internet researchers will enter Poland. For now, you should be carefull with reports.
I'm not an expert in e-business (I'm still studing). I'm watching what's going on and I will tell you if I found something good.
and shortly,
Interia [interia.pl...] (SE Altavista) moved on faster servers (IPO 2nd February - first Polish public portal!)
Gazeta [gazeta.pl...] from Agora, the biggest press publisher (official launch on February) is working and SE is powered by Altavista.
SearchEngines.pl moved their launch date on 15th Ferbruary. I don't know what is it but I found a few Poles work on SearchEngines.com
maybe it's their work (and that would be great!)
Found the viangel group and have applied for membership. Hoping to be accepted. I am curious about searchengines.pl. This is the third time they postpone launch. Wonder what it will turn out to be.
Jan
