Netherlands - Nederland #2

7 search engines, 9 directories

[rencke]

Continued from here [webmasterworld.com]

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Netherlands -Nederland
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): nl
Online population: 7,28 million (45,8%) (1Q/2001)
Native language(s): Dutch
Understanding of English: High
Hosts in domain: 1,8 million (April 2001)
Pages in language: 6,29 million (April 2001, all domains)
Pages in domain: 6,73 million (Sep 2000, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Yes
Multiple domains allowed: Yes
Professional help: See bottom of page

Known general search engines:

Altavista [nl.altavista.com]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Altavista Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes? Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: ?

Elite [eli.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Excite [nl.excite.com]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

G!mme [gimmens.com]
Language interface: English Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Only if no meta tags are used Keyword in 1st paragraph: Only if no meta tags are used Other: Indexes sites. Meta tags important. Small database (2% of Altavista)

Ilse [ilse.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: #1 Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No, but must be Dutch owned Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: ?Big YES Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Nothing else helps ranking. Ilse ususally indexes newly submitted urls nightly 23.00 to 03.00 local time (GMT+1)

Lycos [lycos.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Planet [planet.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Altavista index Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Search [search.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Vindex [vindex.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: 1,6 mill visitors/mo Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Keywords in ALT tags! Keywords in mail addresses!

Known general directories:

1ste KEUZE [1stekeuze.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: 2.000 unique visitors per day Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: 1 (editors may give more Search method: Directory first, then meta search
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: No Keyword in URL: No Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Other: Keyword in keyword field helps, but cannot be repeated from title and/or description. Use plural forms, synonyms and unique keywords here. Submit a description in Dutch, mentioning availabe languages. Must have unique content interesting to Dutch

EC Rider [ecrider.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Looksmart [nl.looksmart.com]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Pagina [startpagina.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: >1 million page visits/day Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: No Keyword in URL: No Keyword in title: No Keyword in description: No Other: ?

track [track.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

wwwgids [wwwgids.net]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Zoek.nl [zoek.nl]
Language interface: Dutch Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?

Local people who can help with translations and advise:

This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.

The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.
Updated 24 april 2001

Edited by: rencke

[Damian]

Henk,

I manually analyzed 48 listings (4 x 12 listings of the first page of results) and could trace all listings back to either

Inktomi, Fast, Google, Yahoo and AltaVista.

.. or an engine using one of these as a source.

In the exact same format, same title, same description.
All differences I did find were caused by bugs in the curryguide metasearch script.

Am I missing something ? I did not manage to get any results that are from Voelspriet. How do I find those ?

PS. vinden.nl is in both your categories, and is a meta search engine too.

[heini]

Damian, Voelspriet
WebmasterWorld is about exchanging and collecting information, not so much about competing.
And again, adressing all members posting in the European Search Engines section: please use links sparsely!
Every once in a while it might be useful to read the forum charter [webmasterworld.com].
Thank you

[heini]

genie.nl seems to be very popular among teenagers, basically being a wap related portal.
They have a web directory also - like all genie sites - powered by looksmart. Does anybody get traffic from being listed there?
Or do the kids just not care...?

[Remco]

My first post here...
I have already been busy with the SE for more then a year and been quite succesfull with it. But never showed that much interest in google as our sites are all dutch orientated. I knew linkpopularity was important, but not much more.

But, this changed as google's market share is increasing and increasing. Today I have learned a lot about google. Currently our site has a pagerank 5 which is quite good, but as I read (and I hope I am correct with that) to get 6 will be quite difficult, and you should need to have some incoming links that have like a 7. Problem, for so far I have found only 2 sites with pagerank 7. One of them of Tiscali, and I don't think they will just give me a link on the front page.

Anybody knows some good dutch directories/site where to submit. Or some good english where I can submit a dutch site? Is Yahoo worth the money?

BTW, Henk: nice to see your post. I like your site a lot, and find it very usefull.

[heini]

Hi Remco - welcome to WebmasterWorld! Hope you´ll find this place as helpful as we do :)
So you find Google becoming a major player for dutch sites - any new figures on that? With the above mentioned problems with Ilse not updating the rise of Google might be accelerated. Dutch internet scene I believe is generally one of the most advanced in Europe.

For ranking well with Google you´ll find tons of useful information in the Google forum [webmasterworld.com]. Your path of getting good directory listings is an important piece of optimizing for Google.
Of course you need a listing in the appropriate category in ODP. Valuable, but expensive and not easy to get is a listing in Yahoo. And then we have listed some local directories above.
And perhaps our dutch members will be able to name you some vortals (special interest directories) .

[oLeon]

Figures here:
[checkit.nl...]

a bit translation:
Goolge rises its market share up to 17,2%, Ilse is still the no-1 with 42,2%, and the former no-2 vindex.nl is now the 3rd place with 8,4%.

Google is coming....

[heini]

>Google is coming....

Small wonder. Ilse.nl has had it´s chance. They were negotiating with Fast and Google, but finally decided they would stick to their inferior search technology. From Voelspriet´s post in Oct. 7.: [webmasterworld.com]

Ilse's new CEO Paul Molenaar says that his target group has 'the depth of a surfboard' and doesn't need sophisticated technology.

The Netherlands is a leading European country in internet usage. It appears it´s a mistake to underestimate the average user.

[Remco]

We will see what happens, but the 42,2% from Ilse is still a large part of the market, I hope they will lose it soon to Google as I love google and it is much better to optimise, especially as there is not that much competition.

But, I think google has a larger part of the market already. For example the checkit research is done by looking at the refer stats of the nedstat statistics. But those searchboxes are mostly on dutch sites. But a lot of surfers also look for foreign pages, especially as in Holland everybody speaks english. And these "foreign" searches are mostly done on SE like google and not measured by the nedstat statistics.

One more note, it is now also possible to buy onlne searchterms at Ilse, and like with google you can see an estimate about the estimated times it will be searched for:

[ilsemedia.nl...]

[heini]

Remco
That´s good info. I liked especially the part about Ilse´s new online "adword" tool.. took it for a ride, and compared with Google adwords. Here is what I found:
For a fairly broad and specifically dutch term, opting for 10.000 views, Ilse estimated campaign to last 40 days.
On Google, showing only to users searching in dutch, estimated to last approx. 42 days.

Now Ilse is an exclusively dutch engine, while on Google dutch speaking people from everywhere do searches, but still it puts them much closer than you would expect from the marketshares given by nedstats.

Oh, and on Ilse 100 views are 3 EURO (=2,80$), while on Google 100 views are 1,50$

[pgsbs]

But Google is still growing and Ilse seems to slip back slowly. Ilse is no longer my number 1 search engine... It always brought me the most visitors but Google and Altavista bring more visitors to my site nowadays. I think that Ilse will die a silent death.

[Remco]

He Heini, I like we were thinking the same about comparing the adwords, and it was also the first thing I did when the keyword advertising went online. I did this on November the 5th. My plan is to do this every month and in this way to look who is winning or losing marketshare ;-) I will keep you of course updated.

[Remco]

The SE from track is powered by wiseguys (wise-guys.nl), this is a dutch firm that came this week with a new SE which is also build with linkpopularity and frases. The SE looks like Google because no advertisements. It looks quite good.

www.kobala.nl

[heini]

Hi Remco
I agree, kobala.nl looks promising. Tried it yesterday - only dutch sites indexed?

[Remco]

If I search for "holiday" I also find .com and .net domains, maybe you can try to submit your sites:
[kobala.nl...]

Choose Regio (region): algemeen (general)

[John_doe112]

Zoek.nl
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: 1.2 million visitors per month Local language(s) required: only for non .nl sites
Local domain(s) only: no
No. of categories allowed per site: 1
Search method: directory first then spider database
Things that help ranking: in categories none
Local language: no Local domain: no
Keyword in URL: no
Keyword in title: yes
Keyword in description: yes
Other: They only charge 50,- guilders per month for a top listing. You can easely change your keywords, description and title in their directories once your site has been placed.

[heini]

Hello John
welcome to WmW and thanks for the info

So Zoek.nl is not only a directory, but spiders also.

>1.2 million visitors per month
Where´s the info from - reliable source? And where does it put them compared to the big players?

[Remco]

Hi,

Some new data about the market share of the SE in Holland for the fourth quater 2001:

1 Ilse.nl 34%
2 Google.com 34%
3 Altavista.nl 6%
4 Vinden.nl 5%
5 Ixquick.com 5%

Google is going fast!

[Ove]

Some new numbers

Domain(s): nl
Online population:8.7 million
In % 54.44

/Ove

[Damian]

Do the figures match your experiences Remco ?
I miss msn.nl, zoek.lycos.nl and altavista.com, above vinden.nl (for that quarter, in that order).

If I'd estimate the top referrers per source for dutch traffic , including all domain extensions (ie. google.de, google.yahoo.com, msn.be):
google 1, ilse 2, inktomi 3, altavista 4, fast 5
Coloured by our own seo efforts of course.

For non-dutch:
The stats Remco posted are regularly provided by Checkit [checkit.nl], which is a seo company ...
If you target a Dutch audience, don't forget to include the (dutch language) Belgium engines in your market share research. These engines are not represented in the figures provided by Checkit.
I think my estimates per source indicate you can get a long way just optimising for the major international engines.

[Damian]

Below some updated info. Corrections welcome.

ENGINES

NEW-Google (google.nl)
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Own
Default search: Any language
Meta description used in search replies: No. (Yes if there is other text ?)

Things that help ranking:
Local language: Yes
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: ?
Keyword in meta keywords: ?
Other: PageRank

NEW-MSN (msn.nl)
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Own/Inktomi
Search method: Looksmart nl directory, looksmart US, inktomi
Meta description used in search replies: Yes (inktomi)

Things that help ranking:
Local language: Yes
Local domain: Yes
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: Yes
Keyword in meta keywords: ?
Other: Looksmart listing, synonyms of keywords

NEW-Kobala
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Wise-guys
Meta description used in search replies: No

Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes (very important)
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: ?
Keyword in meta keywords: ?
Other: Linkpopularity, proximity

UPDATE-Altavista (nl.altavista.com)
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Altavista
Meta description used in search replies: Yes

Things that help ranking:
Local language: Yes
Local domain: Yes (?)
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: Yes
Keyword in meta keywords: Yes ?
Keyword in header: Yes
Keyword in 1st paragraph: ?
Yes Other: looksmart listing ?

UPDATE-Vindex
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: 1,6 mill visitors/mo
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Own
Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: Yes
Keyword in meta keywords: Yes
Keyword in header: Yes
Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes (?)
Other: Keywords in ALT tags! Keywords in mail addresses! (?) Keyword in subdomain or domain.

UPDATE - Ilse
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: #1
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Own
Meta description used in search replies: No

Things that help ranking:
Local language: ?
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: Yes, Not very much
Keyword in description: ?
Keyword in meta keywords: ?
Keyword in header: ?
Keyword in 1st paragraph: ?
Other: Listing with somesubject.pagina.nl (directory) , or ilse's own directory, keyword in directory (sub)category

UPDATE - Planet
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Google
Meta description used in search replies: No

Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: ?
Keyword in meta keywords: ?
Keyword in header: ?
Keyword in 1st paragraph: ?
Other: Plain google (default is search in any language, other option search in dutch language)

UPDATE - Lycos
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
Search technology: Fast (and hotbot ? )
Meta description used in search replies: Yes

Things that help ranking:
Local language: Yes
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: ?
Keyword in title: ?
Keyword in description: ?
Keyword in meta keywords: ?
Keyword in header: ?
Keyword in 1st paragraph: ?
Other: Plain fast (default is dutch language) , results identical to alltheweb.com, sometimes update times are different.

UPDATE-Excite
Left the Netherlands

UPDATE-Elite
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: ?
Local domain(s) only: ?

Search method: own (very small) database
Things that help ranking:
Local language: Yes
Local domain: ?
Keyword in URL: ?
Keyword in title: ?
Keyword in description: ?
Other: ?

UPDATE-G!mme
No search engine

UPDATE- Search.nl
Search.nl does not return any results today, is it still active ??

DIRECTORIES

UPDATE - EC Rider
Not maintained anymore

UPDATE - Looksmart.nl
Moved out

UPDATE-Pagina
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: >1 million page visits/day
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
No. of categories allowed per site: More then one
Search method: Ilse technology. Results showing directory category, subcategory, url
Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: ?
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: ?
Other: keyword in subcategory, subcategory start with '0' (there are many telephone area code categories, ie. 020 stands for amsterdam, address is 020.pagina.nl )

UPDATE - Wwwgids
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
No. of categories allowed per site: More then one
Search method: Directory categories, then Google results (default dutch, NO clustering, showing descriptions)

Things that help ranking:
Local language: Yes
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes
Keyword in title: ?
Keyword in description: ?
Other:

UPDATE - Track
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
No. of categories allowed per site: ?
Search method: Wise-guys.nl search results (no search in directory)

Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: Yes (very important)
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: ?
Other: Linkpopularity, proximity

UPDATE- Zoek.nl
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: ?
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
No. of categories allowed per site: 1 (?) Multiple urls in same category allowed/happening
Search method: Directory results first. If no directory results, own spidered results

Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: No (?)
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: Yes
Other: ?

Update 1steKeuze
Language interface: Dutch
Traffic volume: 200,000 unique visitors per month
Local language(s) required: No
Local domain(s) only: No
No. of categories allowed per site: 1 (editors may give more
Search method: Directory first, then meta search
Things that help ranking:
Local language: No
Local domain: No
Keyword in URL: No
Keyword in title: Yes
Keyword in description: Yes
Other: Pay for priority listing. Keyword in keyword field helps, but cannot be repeated from title and/or description. Use plural forms, synonyms and unique keywords here. For non-priority submissions submit a description in Dutch, mentioning availabe languages. Must have unique content interesting to Dutch

[Remco]

Hi Damian,

I would miss google.yahoo.com, and I would think that Ilse is still nr 1 and google 2. But I think it is very hard to say....

I can imagine that with a big site, with lots of categories you have different entries from your site to google. But with Ilse's new index it is quite impossible to submit multiple pages succesfull as you would need at least one link on one of the pagina.nl sites to each site.

So with a big optimised site you would also get automatically more traffic from Google.

[Damian]

>So with a big optimised site you would also get automatically more traffic from Google.

Agreed. Also true for Inktomi, Lycos and AltaVista.

[Theo_Runia]

For my dutch bookstore google is the one that brings in a lot of traffic. Around 1500 hits from google a day.
Ilse is getting much better lately, this is the second on my site. msn.nl/com also brings in a lot of traffic. Most other dutch searchenginges do provide hits, but much less. Other international searchengines are doing much less lately, except mayby altavista.

[Rumbas]

Hey Damian, thanks for keeping us updated. That's an impressive post you made there :)

[Remco]

Long time since something sayed in this topic of the forum... I just wanted to say that Ilse just had her update which is mostly affected by the changes on the subpages of pagina.nl

I was waiting more then 1 month for this and happy it came! Anybody some new good results?

[heini]

Hey Remco :)

>Long time

that's right, was wondering myself. We do have some _very_ knowledgable dutch members here, but they are mostly posting in general forums.

We also encourage members to post topics as new threads directly into the european forum. This policy has it's pros and it's cons.

Main reason is we don't want to seperate members by nationalities but rather encourage open discussions.

OTOH those country threads work good as collections of related stuff.

[vitaplease]

Remco,

I find you can apply to Ilse and be in the next day for new pages to your existing site (already in Ilse).

But then Ilse is predominantly looking at starpagina.nl 's listings and you are right they have added some new listings but not all.

I have recently called Ilse why their on-line keyword advertising is not up and running (the site said february now it indicated mid this year)and they claimed to come up with something completely new.

[Remco]

vitaplease I agree with you that sites are included already the next day, but for good results you have to wait for the total update.

I had for example a site which was included the next day, also showing the directory page on which it was already for some months. But it took untill this update to get good results, even as the site did not get any other directory page.

When do you think all the listings will appear? And did they say when adwords will be online again?

[vitaplease]

Google now has the largest market share for searches, finally passing Ilse in the Netherlands:

For those who like Dutch:

[checkit.nl...]

Fist quarter 2002:

Google 43%,
Ilse.nl 29%
Ixquick 5%
Altavista.nl 4%

Added - my own comment - Ilse.nl is mainly popular because it is the default search engine voor startpagina.nl, the Dutch equivalent(but much larger in number of Dutch sites) to ODP.

[Remco]

It looks like the growth of Google has come to an end (in the Netherlands)

Second quarter 2002:
Google: 43% (43%)
Ilse: 28 (29%)
AltaVista.nl: 4 (4%)
IxQuick.com: 4 (5%)

Like the previous post, data provided by checkit in association with Nedstat