Forum Moderators: open
Threw out a few LookSmart submissions, with mediocre results.
Maybe a little rubber cement would have helped the descriptions stick a little better. From a readability point of view, they turned out just fine, but from a KW point of view, well they got watered down. I can't exaclty complain that they are not accurate descriptions, just not what had been hoped for.
Then YAHOO! They have been phenomenal. Who'd a thought? Not one word or category changed thus far. $199.00 no longer seems like such a big chunk for a fast accurate description.
About.com - never had to deal with About for promotional purposes, but guides have been helpful, cordial, and friendly.
NBCi, It midas well be a search engine now. Wortha submission to the Live directory but never much of a source of traffic..
For SEO purposes, YAHOO! leads the pack so far.
Thr recent trend at Yahoo! seems to be "just take the money"
Robert:
My experience with about guides is to get personal with them. Try to do something that will add value to there area and BTW tell them about your site as well :)
Example:
[vintagecars.about.com...]
Let's look at Guide Teri Olcott [click]
"If there is a certain car or auto-related subject you'd like to know more about, or a web site you would like me to feature, please email me."
Looks like a done deal to me!
Yahoo on the other hand always gives me the generic description "offers widgets online". So I've found a work around with them by utilizng longer domain names :).
Mike - I know so little about About that I'm not sure where or why I would interact with them. What I'm hoping for is a 4 or 5 sentence introduction About.com.
Each site in our unique network is run by a professional Guide who is carefully screened and trained by About. Guides build a comprehensive environment around each of their specific topics, including the best new content, relevant links, How-To's, Forums, and answers to just about any question.
[ourstory.about.com...]
Are you ready to become an online leader of a community of people who share your interests? Are you ready to get paid for what you love to do?
[guide.about.com...]
On Febuary 28th we completed our merger with PRIMEDIA Inc. (NYSE: PRM). To learn more about investing in PRIMEDIA and participating in the growth of About, please visit www.primedia.com
[ourstory.about.com...]
[edit typos]
Edited by: Mike_Mackin
I'm finding our Yahoo traffic really going down, no changes in our listings. Yahoo is still the top traffic provider for the directories. One of our paid listings in LookSmart hasn't generated much traffic, not sure why. ODP is the steady rock, little direct traffic but plenty from other sites using the directory.
Edited by: skiguide
I guess then, I'm the one to help you there. Not only am I an SEO specialist, but also a guide at About.com - i'll give you one guess which topic;)
About.com is now the 5th most popular web property (as reported by Media Metrix, for march). We are gunning to come in right after AOL, Yahoo & MSN. we have over 800 guides that produce orignal content for their various niche markets, as well as provide resources for community users.
I decided to apply for About after I had many pleasant experiences with Guides promoting several of my clients and adding links to their sites in the "Subjects" section. Several of the more popular topics, such as "job planning & careers" - drive insane amounts of traffic to my client sites.
Your best approach to About Guides is to in fact, take a highly personalized approach, since we are real people. Look at us more for providing highly targeted traffic and promotional opportunities, rather than rankings. We are NOT a search engine. we are a directory that has search functions. (although I have issues w/ some of our other search 'partners' besides Inktomi, but I digress)
So, when thinking about placement on About, carefully research the different channels and topic sites that are relevant to your site, product or service. Then, once in the appropriate sites, look around for the best fit under the Guides "Subjects" - notice that high quality or informational sites often get a "best of the net" award.
Then, at the top of the guide's page, there's a contact guide link. Once there, you can find the guides email address. Be careful here! Some guides have established other sections about Submitting a URL & rules or PR opportunities - a good example is: [goeurope.about.com...]
Make sure you look for these instructions, b/c some guides will just get mad you didn't take the time to truly look around. If there are not any specific instructions,then craft a polite and detailed (not a novel though) message to us about your site, where it might fit appropriately (include a brief, suggested description). Additionally, try to think of other opportunities the Guide's site presents to your product - can you offer unique 'guest' content for the guide, can you offer a giveaway, can you offer the guide a product to review or a free PRESS TRIP (we love these:) - anything along these lines? Then, of course, return the favor and link back to our sites so your traffic can benefit from the best resource on the net for this topic!
Sorry - a bit longer than 4 or 5 sentences!
Elisabeth
PS>Skibum: Thanks!
>>About.com - never had to deal with About for promotional purposes, but guides have been helpful, cordial, and friendly.
About is heavily pushing Advertising and Sprinks sales - We'd like to remain one of the last few standing, so we are trying to do anything we can to remain alive. We are in pretty good shape post-merger with Primedia, one of the largest magazine publishers - and we feel we have plenty to offer internet users, so we are mainly committed to survival. We are absolutely unique compared to those portals in front of us.
So, chances are a guide will also refer you to advertising or sprinks opportunities. Consider these options carefully, because for your (clients) business also needs optimal visibility to survive too. A simple link from one of our sites may not be found by the majority of users. Your best bet is to be up front!
[i hate it when i spell things wrong]
Edited by: skiguide
The Moderator of this forum just moved to Maine within the last week or so.
No Kidding!
I'm also an ODP editor so I know of her there as well!
I'll have to shoot her a PM. - it's so
cool how the Web gives you a chance to virtually know other people! I've *met*
many interesting people via the web, who
I plan on meeting in person someday!
It's not really "inside info" though - i would hate to get into trouble for giving away anything that isn't public.
Like I said, I had success with About placements before I became a guide by using this tried & true process (my impression of an infomercial!)
But since I have become a guide, I can see how this approach benefits us tremendously as well. now...somebody offer me skiing stuff!!
thank SkiBum for introducing me to this particular board:)
Your welcome! It's the best one on the net, and even better now that there is an About.com insider here to fill us in on the details.
Drop a grand plus to go to SES, or converse with some of the most knowledgable SEO people from the comfort of your own home for free. Take your pick:)
i also like the sister one, SearchEngineForums.com though...i've been hitting that a lot lately too.
You guys better not get me in trouble w/ the "Insider" label! I'm not going to give any private company info away - just my experience as an SEO person & as a guide.
BTW, I do have a rottweiler...I'll send you a picture when I have time to reply to that long email.....didn't forget about it.
[adsonline.about.com...]
The banners are probably on a CPM or sponsorship basis, under "subjects" the guide works to put together a top level directory of general topics, which is where the personal contact would come in to bring something to the attention of the guide.
Under the "Search Engine Rankings" part, these are paid listings, or a compilation which the guide has put together?
The sponsored links are from Sprinks? Are they tied to the search which was performed (search engine positioning) to land at this page (doesn't seem like it), or are they bid on, based on the topic of the site which the guide covers?
The HP banner (the banner like thing all the way at the top anyway - showing HP now)has a heading of "Industry Tools" but the banner below is labeled as "Advertising" which is showing a magazine subscription ad at the moment. Is there a difference between the two placements?
If you are at liberty to explain how it all works, it would be great to know.
And yes, SEF is another great forum!
RE: [top9.com...]
That ranking seems wacky...NBCi seems awfully high, iWon close to the level of About, and above AV, YIKES!! Guess it all depends on what metric they were using. If ya throw enough money and advertising at something (NBCi and iWon) people will use it, or at least go register some clicks to enter the drawings.
Blows my mind Google isn't on there.
Agreed, but here's a bit of explanation why:
Data for Top9.com come from PC Data Online, and are based on their own unique methodology. Their user base of 120,000 is the largest in the industry and consists primarily of home users. Top9.com is all about trying to reflect the most popular sites based on what the average user wants.BTW, PC Data has been acquired, so we may lose this ranking system, too.Rankings for the "Top9" listing can not be purchased, submitted or influenced; they are based on objective survey methods. If your site is one of the nine most popular sites in its category based on our figures, it will appear in the "Top9" listing.
And welcome to WebmasterWorld skiguide, thanks for the About info.
Can someone tell me where you can submit sites at about?
no, we don't have a general submit a site link, because it is up to each individual guide to choose which quality links to add.
when suggesting a link to an About.com guide, make sure you've found 1) the right topic(s) - you can approach more than 1 guide, but have adequate reasons for being included in their site, and 2) make sure there IS an appropriate place on there site for a link, under "SUBJECTS" -
when emailing a guide make sure you point out where your link would 'fit' and how it benefits the guides users.
Finally, make sure you completely read the "contact guide" section - and look for a "Submit or Add a Site" links, b/c many guides have their own individualized form and particular review process. if they have one, and you email them w/ a suggestion anyway, you're likely to irritate them because you didn't read instructions.
hope this helps!
I would really love to get my I Ching site listed in the About New Age I Ching section, where the Guide is Barbara Bianco. She has a friendly page inviting people to email her with suggestions, and sends out an equally friendly newsletter.
So... I've emailed her on 3 occasions (several months apart): all personal, polite, thanking her for the site, suggesting content ultra-relevant to her pages, going into detail about how I've thought carefully about what would add something to her already excellent selection and here are 4 or 5 suggestions, etc, etc, all for deep links into the site. And believe me, it really is worth listing - better content and presentation than what she already has listed. Honest. It has its problems, true, but those are generally to do with getting people to the order form ;-), not getting them to appreciate the content!
You will have gathered, I am a little frustrated. If she doesn't want to link to the site, fine, but can't she reply to her emails? Or set up an autoresponder to say 'go away, you're wasting your time'?
When ODP did nothing in response to repeated requests, I sent a plaintive note to the editor of the next category up saying 'please tell me what I'm doing wrong!' and got listed straight away :-) Is there anything equivalent I could try here? Anywhere else I could appeal? Just for a review, or a reply, or some way of establishing that there's someone out there?? Or anything I should change when I send email number 4?
Calling all About editors - er - help??
Thank you!
It is hit or miss with About.com. As you suggested it is entirely up to the editor.
The only other thing I could think to suggest, would be to walk up the About.com food chain and see if you can get someones attention.
So I email the 'religion and spirituality' guide to ask what I'm doing wrong? Any suggestions for the best approach?
I'm sorry you're having a tough time getting your site listed on about.com.
Let's go over a few things, as brett said, it is hit or miss, but unlike Directories like ODP, LS & Yahoo, there is not really a "Food Chain" to get your site listed. Think of About.com guides not as editors of a directory like ODP, but as editors of a magazine, they decide exactly what content is printed. we don't have to list any site that we don't want to.
I don't necessarily think it's right that some guides do not reply at all with 'rejection' cases - but sometimes they choose not to, just not to get into an argument over someone's site. For some reason or another, they've decided the site just doesn't fit their topic list.
that said, About's email system sucks - nearly half the time we don't get our email. or some doesn't make it to the receipient. so it's quite possible that she never received any requests, but i would say after 3, that's unlikely.
Q. do the other sites she lists sell something to? if not, then perhaps she just isn't listing your site because it's not purely informational, just selling something. In that case, then, you might just want to buy Sprinks on her site, because at least you'll have your site listed in front of a highly targeted audience.
one other thought - you said she sends nice newsletters - have you gotten one recently? are they regular? i ask because she may have quit, or is doing the bare minimum for work right now, as many guides are.
let me know if you have more questions, in the mean time, i'll see what i can dig up in that channel.
The commercial/non-commercial idea is a thought, as most of her I Ching links are academic. (I've been careful to send links only to the non-commercial bits of my site, which predominate.) She does also review commercial software, though.
My guess is that she's just not interested in updating that area of her site for now (/ever??). If only it were possible to buy Sprinks in a specific, targeted area, but unfortunately nothing more specific than 'New Age' is possible, and I can't afford to bid myself to the top of that.
If you do have any more inspired thoughts, I would love to hear them!
