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Its been 4 months and my site still is not listed in Dmoz. Does anybody know why?
I even decided to put in an application as an editor but I can't get the email to go through. I tried sending it to the email dmoz gave me which was apply@aol.net.
Then I was told that there is a bug in their system and the correct email address is apply@dmoz.org, and that came back as not found too.
Can anybody help me figure this out? Thanks!
An ODP listing is important altogether for search engine rankings regardless of which engine; specific reasons depend on which one. Mainly, having a listing in a human-edited directory like ODP is considered to be having an on-topic link from a non-affiliated authoritative source.
Important note:
Please, don't anybody get any bright ideas from the above statement. Let's not go there. Let's not even think about going there.
For reference, here's some dynamite reading:
When Experts Agree: Using Non-Affiliated Experts to Rank Popular Topics [www10.org]
For Google's scoring in particular, right now for us it primarily means having links that confer Page Rank from two sources. From DMOZ itself, and from the Google Directory. If context-sensitive Page Rank becomes a reality it will have even more impact.
Apparently the concept of conferring authority goes further, since a number of search engines are known to look to ODP to find sites. There's also a related topic of "web communities" that's had some papers published about, and a good authoritative directory listing can be considered a prime ingredient for identification of a web community.
And I say thank Godness for that, as my experience with DMOZ is that it is a group of clickies; people that appreciate each others company / sites and no-one elses. Its all politics, agendas and attitudes there. If DMOZ was made any more important commercially speaking then JoeAnt, I would laugh and scream at the same time. I think Yahoo is streets ahead of them on quality content. I just hope they keep having escalating server problems.
as my experience with DMOZ is that it is a group of clickies; people that appreciate each others company / sites and no-one elses. Its all politics, agendas and attitudes there.
That may be your personal opinion Gordon, but that is exactly where we do NOT want to go with this discussion, as was previously stated - in advance - quite specifically - back in msg #2.
Important note:
Please, don't anybody get any bright ideas from the above statement. Let's not go there. Let's not even think about going there.
Again! Please, let's not go there.
Sorry, it was Krishna Bharat who co-authored that paper (please note his current location) and to me he's like that stock broker we see on TV - when he speaks, I listen.
A link on ODP is no better nor worse than a link on any other page of the same PR shared by the same number of links and using the same link text.
That's right now as far as we can tell, and that's only Google. And that's only related to PR - which is only one of over 100 variables used.
Are we to be certain that an ODP listing has no bearing whatsoever on Inktomi, FAST or Teoma and never will - all of whom don't use Page Rank? And are we to be certain that an ODP listing will have no bearing whatsoever if we're to consider the possibility of
Topic Sensitive Page Rank [webmasterworld.com]?
And incidentally, let's not rule out Yahoo altogether either, in view of the fact that topic sensitivity may be an increasingly important factor. There are still things that humans do better than an automated algo, and always will.
[edited by: Marcia at 6:51 am (utc) on July 24, 2003]
Google directory,
AOL Directory
Netscape directory,
Lycos Directory,
HotBot Directory,
Webcrawler Directory,
Alexa Directory,
Euroseek Directory,
Sympatico Directory,
EarthNet
not forgetting regionals, and all those half decent clones...
Ya I agree... just like any other link. ;)
JoeHouse asked the question "Its been 4 months and my site still is not listed in Dmoz. Does anybody know why?"
Going there may upset some, but it more likely answers the question! So my reply is valid.
I have concrete proof (from the horse's mouth) that a certain directory area does not approve sub directory applications due, not to some sensitive subject matter, but to the peer (Meta, is that right?) editor making it their pet. Even though they have not reviewed any site submissions for 14 months. And I repeat, I have that from the horse's mouth.
When I b'd about it, as I did due to a terrorist victims support site having still not been listed (actually it was, under some French language section, but was then removed) nearly a year after it was launched. The peer editor put 2 and 2 together, got 5 and then deleted my brother's sites out of the index (he applied 2 months ahead of me).
I can give you (as I have given one of the big wigs at DMOZ) examples of small sites with 5 listings (I wonder why), where they (DMOZ) say these are justified because they fulfill the criteria for different sections (fooey), and yet where airlines and major charities have been ignored. I can show you examples of where a commerical accommodations site throws up a page with 3 vegetarian recipies on it and behold it get listed in a vegitarian section. Yet, when you complain, it is reported as a valid listing, yet the region's number one resource site is not.
Sorry, but the main reason sites do not get listed in DMOZ is because the editors server their own interests and egos first, the Internet second.
Sorry, but the main reason sites do not get listed in DMOZ is because the editors server their own interests and egos first, the Internet second.
First off, that is not the topic here and the recent delay in both inclusions and application reviews has been amply covered by recent threads, in which conscientious editors have been most helpful and informative.
Anything further is beyond the scope and intent of this forum according to the forum charter provisions and needs to be taken up with ODP directly. Not here. Not in this thread. Not in this forum.
What we want to discuss here and now is Why is DMOZ so important to Google regarding rankings? - exactly the title posted, verbatim. Which, if we want to examine the issue further, can easily be expanded to why a DMOZ listing is so important to search engine rankings in general.
Additionally, as fathom has pointed out, a DMOZ listing is important regarding the number of major sites that use the directory - which is not at all unrelated to the topic of the research paper which was linked to in msg #2.
The fact of the matter is that a DMOZ listing is an authoritative link - the relevancy of which is the topic of this discussion. Bottom line - that is what we are discussing.
Submit elsewhere, do link exchanges, do PPI, start some PPC, try some email marketing, cross promotion, offline integration... "when did that happen - hey guys "I'm listed"! :)
Bottom line - that is what we are discussing?!
This is what JoeHouse asked;
Its been 4 months and my site still is not listed in Dmoz. Does anybody know why?
I answered.
You may not like the answer, but that does not mean it is wrong. And you may be discussing one aspect of what was asked, that does not mean others can not discuss others.
We are not the ODP help desk. Any specific questions about sites should be taken up through proper ODP channels.
>>>Its been 4 months and my site still is not listed in Dmoz. Does anybody know why?<<<
Sorry Joe, but questions about specific sites must be addressed to ODP directly. We don't deal with those issues here.
Posts which serve no informational purpose and only insult or belittle other members will be seen as flaming and/or trolling and will be removed.
That includes belittling or insulting ODP editors, some of whom are bonafide, registered members of WebmasterWorld in good standing.
Now - after a brief intermission, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
[edited by: Marcia at 8:21 am (utc) on July 24, 2003]
It gives your site a "reputation" - that means you may be more likely to be included for free in pfi engines, it means people will spot you who are searching for decent link partners, etc, etc.
If I'm working on a site, one of the things I'll do is scour the Google Directory on and around the subject - a few of the listings might be competitors but most of the ones at the top of that directory are potential partners in one way or another...
It gives your site a "reputation" - that means you may be more likely to be included for free in pfi engines
Exactly. Because it's authoritative.
it means people will spot you who are searching for decent link partners, etc, etc.
Totally logical when looking for sites within a given topical realm - and related sites as well.
Now people are not allowed to ask other webmasters why it might be that their site is not listed, or why they are having problems!
If that were the case, then half the posts would go. Why not put up a simple redirrect to the ODP "forum" / "help page".
And it is amazing Marcia, that now, in post 10 you decide that Joe's question was not appropriate.
Seems like ODP editors can give it out, but can't take it back. Another reason to avoid ODP.
How many posts have we heard whining that they can't get into the ODP? Too many by far, and I'll bet 99% of them don't actually deserve to be in there.
All Marcia is trying to do is stop the thread being side-tracked into that over-played whine again. And she's right to do so.
I, and many others, are sick and tired of reading such posts. They add no value. They make no positive contribution. Most of them are simply an outlet for the frustration for webmasters whose sites don't qualify for one reason or another.
Also, if you could sit on the other side of the fence and see what rubbish is routinely submitted you might think different.
All IMHO of course.
Far too much importance is placed on ODP. There are too menay categories left empty without editors, too many biased editors, too much politics, too much "you can get listed if you know the right person" etc.
If google is looking for an authorititive unbiased birectory that is up-to-date then I don't know why it goes to DMOZ.
This forum also has too much politics. If people can't say what they feel without it being censored and controlled by certain companies then what's the point of having a forum?
For you information, ODP is the most complete and the biggest directory on the web. Just compare it to Yahoo and L$... there is actually no comparison. It's an outstanding achievement.
Just because some people can't get their sites in it (most of them rightly so) doesn't change that one jot.
There was no whine, no mention of not being able to get a site into the directory, just some valid reasons why DMOZ isn't everything it's cracked up to be.
And an assertion that there are too many people hanging round these forums that work for the companies involved and won't have a bad word said against them. That is not an open discussion and it is the reason i have been sniffing around these boards for months and have chosen not to post until now.
Well sorry... but it's by far the best diectory on the web, and is widely regarded as such. It's just SO EASY to slag something off like that, and offer NOTHING positive as an alternative. I call it whining.
As for your comment on Forum politics, Marcia was NOT playing playing politics, she was trying to keep the thread on a positive track... and away from fruitless ODP bashing. That's also what I'm trying to do, but failing.
well, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, as i am entitled to mine.
Some positive suggestions for you.....
* ODP should take on more editors to fill the empty categories. There are lots of people out there willing to help but are being turned away.'
* ODP need to be tougher on editors not doing their job properly, there are plenty of people to take their place.
* ODP needs to operate more like a professional company, no servers breaking all the time, site sbmission forms going offline etc.
If it was such a great directory then more web users would use it to find what they want. The fact is that the only people/robots that actually use it are other search engines.
However, for your info:
a) People do get turned away when they apply, and almost always for good reasons. They are notified accordingly.
b) No the ODP shouldn't take on more editors just for the sake of it. If they are inappropriate for the category, they are inappropriate. Any other approach would have a negative impact on quality.
c) ODP is currently upgrading its infrastructure.
Instead of having an open and adult conversation about a directory (which is after all the heading of this forum) you'd rather just lock the thread because somebody disagrees with your point of view?
Differenct people do have different views and will express different views to you on public discussion forums, that's just life and you can't just go running to mummy (mods) every time somebody expresses an opinion that is different to yours.
ODP needs to operate more like a professional company, no servers breaking all the time, site sbmission forms going offline etc.
To their credit they're working on this issue right now and there are numerous threads stating so.
It's been posted numerous times as in, "your category hasn't been edited in six-months? we're doing a server upgrade". I have a feeling you'll hear about the server upgrade for the next few months as an excuse for sites not getting reviewed, "your site hasn't been reviewed in six-months? we did a server upgrade eight-months ago and we're trying to catch up".
BTW, you'll never get a DMOZ insider to admit anything is wrong and I recommend just giving up. It's just not worth the effort.
oh well, back to work.
If only you could be bothered, you would search this Forum and find a dozens of other threads full of people moaning pointlessly because their sites were justifyably rejected, or they were justifyable rejected. Most experienced people are sick of hearing it as it adds no value at all. It has no bearing on the quality of the ODP, and offers nothing positive to anyone at all.
I was simply trying close down just another predicatable and futile moaning session.
I realize you’ll never admit that some sites get improperly rejected but to be fair, a major share of the groaning I’ve seen was related to sites not being reviewed, not that they were rejected.
Surely not? :o
Does the level of complaint sugget that something is wrong or are you so closed minded that you believe that everyone who complains is just moaning and the system is perfect?
Yes hundreds of people do complain and it is completely futile because feedback never seems to be listened to or acted upon, the attitude is "oh it's just a load of users moaning again" not "let's thanks the users for providing some valuable criticizm"
Like woop01 said, there's no point in arguing because nobody inside DMOZ will ever listen or admit that dmoz is anything less than 100% perfect. Very short sighted.
As it is completely futle i'm off to make myself a sandwich.
Nevermind, it's a SEP (*), at least for me right at this moment.
I'd just like to point to the fact that the spin-off directories mentioned by fathom in msg #5 are far from the only ones. The DMOZ directory is imported into so many sites around the world that it resembles a "directory-in-a-box". Just try this G search using a sub-sub-sub-sub-sub cat:
[google.com...]
That's why one listing in DMOZ actually equals a whole lot of backlinks at one time. Given that G calculate PR based on backlinks, this should illustrate the importance (Thread topic).
/claus
<added>
...and naturalinstinct, welcome to WebmasterWorld, always nice to see new posters :)
</added>
[edited by: claus at 1:06 pm (utc) on July 24, 2003]
