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Dave
The words "resource zone is the place..." keeps cropping up, I guess only time will tell if this is the case for me. I do however find it very strange that if "resource zone is the place..." why it was only by chance of finding this site that I was told about "resource zone"? Are there plans to make this forum known to the public? If so, when and where?
Resource Zone is not affiliated in any with DMOZ or its parent companies. The only relation it has to DMOZ is that it is run by and frequented by some of the editors from the project. As such, it hasn't been promoted by DMOZ itself.
It has, however, cropped up in places like Search Engine Watch (see [searchenginewatch.com...] ) and other SEO news sources.
It is possible that in future, DMOZ staff decide to promote Resource Zone, but as it is it's already quite popular, and I imagine it may become unbearable if every webmaster and his dog started enquiring about his/her submission. We get thousands every day, even with a faulty submission form (well, a form that occasionally times out or generates errors).
Of course, the argument for an automated system of checking to see whether a submission was successful or not comes up again, but the reasons why this route have not been adopted have already been giving; additionally sometimes the reasons for rejection aren't so clear cut, and, yes, I'll admit it, sometimes an editor gets it wrong, so having people come to Resource Zone means they can at least argue their case. It's not common, but it happens.
Now, for 5 years, I have tried to change the URL via their specified way, tried emailing the editor (and was very polite), tried emailing the paid staff, tried adding our new domain. This game has been going on for 5 years now without a clue as to why nothing works! If this is happening to me, and many others from what I read, it would appear DMOZ is no longer a qaulity directory but a very old neglected list.
We gone around and round, snapped at each others ankles, been in and out of the resource zone, listened to many self confessed dmoz editors and a few suspected dmoz editors, many with different views and opinions, got insulted, offended and frustrated ... what have we really achieved?
The strange thing is I can still earn a living.
sighs again and slips out to a more productive thread. toodles
Since this thread has been all over the map (and I notice that we've unfortunately lost a moderator in the last day or so), I'd like to point interested parties, especially regulars to this Directories forum, to [webmasterworld.com...]I have requested moderation of this forum using the Google forums model (found at [webmasterworld.com...] ).
I just want to say that I agree with this 100%.
I think it has ran out of fuel now in any case.
Time to move on to topics new. IMO
I must also say that I am very unclear about some others things now. It has been said many times (by editors) that the editors at DMOZ are are very much snowed under with submissions and this is the reason for most delays in getting listed. Some categories do not even have editors! Why is it that so many of the DMOZ editors don't have time problems in posting to this forum, resourse zone etc? Shouldn't there priorities lay with getting submissions cleared up? After all, they did volunteer for the job.
It's seems like the editors have created the backlog problems themselves and now spend time trying to answer questions as to why.
Dave
[edited by: Dave_Hawley at 8:25 am (utc) on July 17, 2003]
I never really looked at it that way - the Resource Zone could be a diversion in one way, although the reasons for it are very good, it is in danger of absorbing a lot of energy which could other be spent reducing the overall backlog that seems to be a burden on those overworked editors. Maybe an official spokesperson or spokespersons ought to be appointed to field the Resource Zone enquiries.
It's great that so many came in to this thread as ambassadors of Dmoz, sadly not everyone was singing from the same song sheet.
I am an ODP editor, and I am involved in the Spreadsheets categories.
My priority is NOT to review submissions. I aim to build and maintain the directory in a few, selected areas. Submissions constitute only one source (and not necessarily the best) for additions to the directory.
At this moment, there are over 150 submisions awaiting review in those cats. There were much more a few weeks ago, before I cleaned all the obvious spam and duplicate submissions. Now I try to review a dozen submissions per week. So I should go through the list (which keeps being added to, of course), in about 4 months.
You are the one I need to speak to I take it. have you read my threads in this post? Here is a summary
Sorry, but my post has been misunderstood. Yes I was *initially* trying to get our site moved to a different category (Excel from VBA). I tried about 3 or more times (spread over a year or so), using the means specified by DMOZ. I don't see how this could be confused with a request for a additional listing as they are 2 different methods. After a year or more, it became very clear my category change request was not going to happen. I still to this date have no idea why despite my emailing the editor and the paid staff on a few occasions.Since then I have been trying to have our site listed in the additional category (Excel) with or new URL. This I have tried many times over the years with no success or a reason why. Agian I tied emailing the editor and the paid staff on a few occasions without any reply or acknowledgement.
Now, while it would *appear* my site has been listed in a category chosen by the third party submission. It is in fact NOT! Doing a search for our company name shows us as having another listing in the Computers: Education: Software category. If however you go into that category we are nowehere to be seen!
RE: editors respond differently
This is the whole crux of the problem. Some editors (at least the one that edits my preferred category) do not respond at all. The paid staff do not respond either!
Bottom line here is. I have NEVER been given any advise, clue or even a hint as to why! despite my following the channels DMOZ themsleves suggest
before I cleaned all the obvious spam and duplicate submissions
I would think the reason for the "spam" and "duplicate submissions" is mainly due to people submitting being left in the dark over the status of their submissions. I have only just found out about Resource Zone and I am sure that 90% of submitters do even know it exists.
Dave
(and not necessarily the best)
You see this is the kind of comment that makes submitters think that ODP editors are in some kind of ego-pod.
If DMOZ doesn't want submissions drop the form for crying out loud. You make this service available and just whinge because you cannot handle the quantity or quality of the load.
Yes I know that one editor cannot speak for DMOZ as a whole, but this attitude is overwhelming amongst those at DMOZ with whom you do come into contact.
Further up this thread one editor, whilst relating to me personally said something like, there is a type of Dmoz editor ... and you are not that type.
I'm pleased about that but this 'type' is .... well I don't know what!
I was enthused by Yapuka's opening gambit
I am an ODP editor, and I am involved in the Spreadsheets categories.
Yes! the main man has arrived to help Dave_hawley in this quest which is now greater than the quest for the Holy Grail :)
...and then to be deflated by the time line, it looks like and officially quoted that it will be a further four months, added on to the five months.
I appreciate that there is no cue jumping or priority system but why spend all that time with spam? - ignore it and deal with the real stuff.
Of course plenty of useful and valid sites are submitted via the submission form, although the proportion of listable sites varies from less than 1% in some categories to greater than 95% in others - it just depends on the field.
This comes back to the core principle of the ODP - that it is primarily there for the benefit of the users, not the submitters. Hence it is important to look beyond just the submission queue for sites, whilst also keeping an eye on that queue for valuable submitted resources.
If you take the Health/Weight_Loss unreviewed pool at the moment as an example - you're looking for pretty big and content-rich sites to be listed at such a high level, but it's immediately clear from the unreviewed queue that the vast majority of the sites are small. Clues like geocities URLs and the way the titles and descriptions have been written make it clear that whoever has the time to go through this lot will come across a lot of affiliate sales merchants, duplicate content aplenty and sites that should be listed one, two or three levels further down in the directory. In amongst the pile may be a small number of significant sites, although the most important ones will mostly already be listed. In this kind of situation, searching elsewhere such as the links section of a BBC article on weight loss, a Google search or the About directory is likely to come up with more listable sites at this level per hour than the equivalent time spent reviewing sites in the unreviewed pool.
The key point here is that editing is not all about the unreviewed pool and the attention you pay to it will vary depending on the particular category.
We introduced a ficticous Dmoz editor called Ed, in his other life he's the boss of Ed's comfortable beds.
He puts on his green visor and becomes Ed the Editor at ODP. In his tray are many piles of files - unreviewed, reviewed, spam, queried, complaint, death threat, etc etc, he sucks through his teeth and decides to scout and tout. It's much more fun and surfing is his bag.
He finds some great sites on the BBC and settles down with his Ed's Comfortable Beds mug of coffee whilst he reviews the newly found url... then "good heaven's where does the time go?" he quickly whips off his green visor, replaces it with his Ed's Comfortable Beds baseball cap and gets on with his other life.
Meanwhile those other piles of files are festering away.
However, it enhances the directory to have BBC articles in relevant categories so editors do need to look elsewhere for sites as well as just the submission queue
Can they not do this AFTER clearing up the submission backlog? How is the editor to know the wonderful BBC site is not on the bottom of Ed's 'festering' pile of 'to be reviewed' submissions?
Besides this, perhaps the BBC hasn't submitted to DMOZ as they DONT want a listing there. They do get asked don't they?
and then to be deflated by the time line, it looks like and officially quoted that it will be a further four months, added on to the five months
One tiny correction to that, it's 5 YEARS not months :o(
BTW where has yapuka (Spreadsheet editor) gone?
Besides this, perhaps the BBC hasn't submitted to DMOZ as they DONT want a listing there.
Or perhaps the BBC generates several hundred new pages every day and hasn't the time to submit them all?
They do get asked don't they?
No. They haven't complained yet, though. In fact, I've been an editor for nearly 4 years (and an editall for over a year) and have only ever seen 2 requests for sites to be removed. (admittedly 2 is a number I've pulled out of the air but it's certainly not many).
How is the editor to know the wonderful BBC site is not on the bottom of Ed's 'festering' pile of 'to be reviewed' submissions?
There are no queues. There are only heaps. There is no order to them. They are sorted by date by default (with the oldest on top) but there are up to 6 sort methods (date, title, URL, description, IP, email address and category if you are viewing multiple categories on one page).
BTW where has yapuka (Spreadsheet editor) gone?
Given the negative tone of this discussion and the pejorative terms used to describe DMOZ editors, it would make sense for editor yapuka to spend some time gardening rather than make a polite and intelligible response to folks who are obviously trolling.
Editor yapuka can speak for himself of course. :)
Confessed editor, suspected editor.
"Yes your worship, I voluntarily tended a category in DMOZ."
"Good Gawd; Bailiff! take this.... this <editor> away and see they are suitably punished for volunteering."
The primary purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas and information about the directories......And please remember: No whining is allowed.
And as the charter also states:
ODP Notes:
We are not the ODP help desk. Any specific questions about sites should be taken up through proper ODP channels. We are not affiliated with them, and we have no power to fix them when they go down or change their policies.
In addition to not being the ODP help desk, or their board of directors for that matter, we are also not the official help desk for resource-zone, nor do we moderate their forum.
ODP editors are dedicated volunteers who give of their time, talents and knowledge to build a directory as a service to the internet community. We also, here at WebmasterWorld, serve the internet community, albeit in a different capacity, and some editors are kind enough to give of their time and knowledge and provide valuable input here by participating in discussions.
Editor_bashing and editor_baiting are outside the guidelines here, as is ODP_bashing. This is not the ODP Groan-Zone, nor is it a venue for rants - that's what blogs are for.
This thread seems to have gone well beyond the point of usefulness, so let's call it a wrap.
