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In fact many (like me) were fired NOT for what they did editorially, but for what they said about ODP outside of ODP. Yet I am on that list - Basically for airing ODP's dirty laundry in public.
You're on that list for a very specific reason, and it has absolutely nothing to do with "airing dirty laundry."
They are totally different.
As per the ODP Guidelines the two sites in question are fraternal mirror sites. Your second site was removed from the index before you were fired.
I know many editors that quit, gave up, or were banned for reasons OTHER than your so-called abuse.
Those that quit on their own accord don't have their sites listed. Only editors with a track record of abuse have their sites listed.
And what, exactly, IS that reason?
After more than a year, I have yet to hear it. And you have to be aware also that one of the reasons was a personal conflict with a very sarcastic and personally abusive Meta, who also was probably the one that wrote any reasons for dismissal. Some grains of salt might be called for.
Since I was fired after publicly complaining in THIS forum, that leads me to be somewhat skeptical of your claims. In fact, it was less than an hour after I had posted...
"As per the ODP Guidelines the two sites in question are fraternal mirror sites.."
Ah, now THAT is a new term.
Then how do you explain the fact that there are over 20 OTHER sites with similar products that are treated differently? How do you explain why our competitors have been able to get both a category listing AND a regional listing, but our sites were turned down?
Of course, I would never accuse any editors of petty vindictiveness.....
[edited by: WindSun at 7:16 pm (utc) on Jan. 27, 2003]
Whjat good reason is there? What good reason is there that outweighs the value of open democracy?
>>Ex-editors can't be trusted. Period. They have a proven track record of abusing ODP policies and harming the directory for their personal gain. They have also shown a great willingness to try to do it again.<<
I am an ex editor, and I dare say I am insulted by that statement. I was removed because of a personal conflict. It had nothing to do with my editing. I found and submitted more competitor sites, and listed them, than most ODP editors. If it is Official ODP policy to stroke Marisa's ego, you should state that somewhere on the editor control panel.
As has been noted many times here, ODP is nothing like a democracy. It is an oligarchy, run by a few select people pretty much at their own whim.
IMO, the word "open" should be deleted from the name. It is far from open.
But that makes for good PR, so it will not be.
"I found and submitted more competitor sites, and listed them, than most ODP editors.."
As did I. In fact, I added over 100 of our competitors sites. Yet, now I am accused of "abuse"?
There are many possible kinds of abuse, most of which are not at all incompatible with adding sites.
Ah, you mean like this statement from one of your senior editors just a few messages back:
"Ex-editors can't be trusted. Period. They have a proven track record of abusing ODP policies and harming the directory for their personal gain..."
The truth is that removal is rare and one must either be abusing their privelages, be a terrible editor (who doesn't improve) or pull a pilotchase.
Posting "As per the ODP Guidelines the two sites in question are fraternal mirror sites.." would not lead to removal ever. EVER. It sounds like an interesting thread, why not post a link to it so all can see the full context?
While your at it, why not post your editor handles here so that any editor who cares to do so can explore your editing histories (and see what lead up to removal)?. I have yet to review a removed editor's edits and come away with the opinion that they were victimized.
That is what should be, but is not always the case. Just before my removal several editors I emailed with on a regular basis applauded my editing and recommended I apply to other cats. I did so. When they ask, "What affiliation you have with the sites?" I responded none. I didn't own any of them, and I derived no financial gain from any. A female editor (the notorious one) wrote me saying it was a lie. I know a lot of ODP editors are kids, but I am an adult and I earned the respect of my peers. I wrote back chiding her on her manners and assumption, and stated, again, that I do not have a profitable relationship with any of the sites.
I was then removed.
<snip>
Although I have a huge amount of respect for the ODP, I think it may have grown into a closed, private club of sorts. If it continues down this road, another directory project may take its place. But, I don't think this will happen soon.
I've seen notes on top of notes, of editors tracking my activity in webmaster forums. Even with this sort of thing going on, a meta editor chose to list the webmaster forum I administer. That went a long ways to restoring my faith in the integrity of the ODP. Just because an editor doesn't like the webmaster should not prevent the site from being listed. And in this case, I was impressed with the ODP.
[edited by: NFFC at 3:58 pm (utc) on Jan. 30, 2003]
[edit reason] Specifics removed [/edit]
Even with this sort of thing going on, a meta editor chose to list the webmaster forum I administer.
That meta happened to be me, BTW. ;)
Which I think should go a long way toward calming the fears of those who believe that the ex-editor list is a blacklist.
From reading this thread it appears that all ex-eds were removed due to conflicts with abusive meta editors with bloated egos.
Many were. It is also true that many were abusive. But I will tell you this from experience: If an editor has made enough edits, anyone who wants to can go through their edits and make a case for abuse. When I was an meta editor, a friend and I demonstrated that for our own amusement by doing so with the edits of the founder and 5 different staff members.
If you think ODP is apolitical, you are wrong. Not only have people been removed for speaking/acting/editing counter to ODP politics, but many have been removed for their stance on "real world" politics. And yes, I have documentation.
The truth is that removal is rare and one must either be abusing their privelages, be a terrible editor (who doesn't improve) or pull a pilotchase.
Unless things have changed drastically in the past couple of years, that is completely wrong. It is not rare at all, as you will see if you go back and read old ODP forum posts.
People who fly far below the radar are removed all the time. Even well-known or outspoken editors are removed with some frequency.
There was a time -- a pretty long time -- when we would remove abusive editors but take huge pains to keep any useful listings, even if the editor's abuse was extensive. After all, if you are looking after the interests of the directory, you keep that which enhances it.
Granted times have changed, but I mention the above only to say that this was how it used to be.
While perhaps it was unintended, there is the one effect that the ex-editors list has on other editors, and only a foolish editor would deny it.
If a line editor goes to list a site and sees that it was listed by a meta or long-time editor in the Ex-Editors category, and no doubt with derogatory notes, the chances that the line editor will risk his or her editorship by listing it are slim.
