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Netscape (pre 7) used the route down method of handling events, while IE used the Bubble-up approach.
So you're using old versions of Netscape in your arguments? Netscape 7 is the now version of Netscape. Not Netscape 6 or 4, as many people seem to think. There are things IE 5 doesn't do that IE 6 does. There's a lot more that IE 4 doesn't do that IE 6 does. In this thread, we are comparing browsers by their latest version. Any arguments for what old versions did wrong is totally invalid.
[edited by: hartlandcat at 7:52 am (utc) on Aug. 11, 2003]
And the W3C is getting tied in knots in certain areas (the deprecated target attribute for instance)and that makes for a disconnect between ideals and practical needs.
But browser developers MUST be practical...code must either be executed in a specified fashion or ignored, with no possibility for navel gazing. And the development process, which takes time, must set certain things early on and then progress. Sometimes I can see why some browsers do things in non-standard ways. After all, the danged thing's got to get to market.
It amazes me that there is still such cross-browser inconsistency on some relatively basic issues. And I do wonder about the long-term lack of browser support for certain features: max-width/min-width, position:fixed, and even the box model itself. Does the W3C generate ideals that are somehow lacking in consistency, so that their practical execution just becomes too knotty?
Very good points. The discrepancy that obviously exists between concept and implementation in the current industry standards is a bit of a puzzle to me also.
Jordan
Not Netscape 6 or 4, as many people seem to think
The key words there is "as many people seem to think". We're talking the real world, not the latest thing of the moment.
Most Netscape users are still using 4.X of one type of another. I have to encourage them to download 7. I actually encourage them to uninstall it altogether and use the IE already on their computers.
I sure we hope we don't start into one of those "post your stats" threads now......
Most Netscape users are still using 4.X of one type of another. I have to encourage them to download 7.
I actually encourage them to uninstall it altogether and use the IE already on their computers.
I sure we hope we don't start into one of those "post your stats" threads now......
Most people still using Netscape 4.x are using Windows 98 (or lower). If you are telling Windows 98 users to use the version of IE installed already on their computer, then you are telling them to use IE 4.0. IE4 instead of NN4 is hardly an improvement. And it gets worse than this. If they have Windows 95 OSR-2 or NT Workstation 4.0, then the version of IE they will have pre-installed will be IE 3.0. And... -cringes-, if they have the original Windows 95, then it will be IE 2.0, or in some cases, IE will not be installed.
I'm sorry, but that is just not a viable option.
And now... my browser stats. As it has been said, you cannot make aligations such as "most Netscape users use Netscape 4.x", without some form of stats to back it up (or down, as the case may be ^_^).
MSIE 6.0: 57.38%
MSIE 5.5: 11.36%
MSIE 5.0: 9.16%
Netscape 7.x: 8.86% (also includes Mozilla etc.)
AOL 7.0: 3.55%
AOL 8.0: 3.39%
MSIE 5.1/2: 1.11%
MSIE 4.0: 1.04%
Robots/Crawlers: 0.94%
Netscape 4.x: 0.89%
AOL 6.0: 0.66%
Opera 7.x: 0.54% (most likely higher than this)
MSIE 5.1: 0.39%
Netscape 6.x: 0.28%
WebTV 2.6: 0.24%
AOL 5.0: 0.14%
Opera 6.0: 0.12% (most likely higher than this)
Safari 1.0: 0.11% (most likely higher than this)
MSIE 4.5: 0.08%
Opera 4.0: 0.05%
WebTV 1.2: 0.05%
Konqueror 3.1: 0.02%
AOL 4.0: 0.02%
AOL 9.0: 0.02%
CompuServe 7.0: 0.02%
Netscape 3.0: 0.02%
And no my site does not attract geeks. If anything, it attracts the opposite.
As for the "most likely higher than this" browsers, some browsers give the option to pretend to be another browser, to avoid being locked out of sites. Opera identifies as IE 6.0 by default.
...and as I mentioned in another monthly digest of "Let's bash the browsers", there's some nifty things you can do in IE code-wise, that ya can't do in other browsers...even after all this time! </troll>
The thread title was about the best browser, not the most used ones.
And the actual question was about favorite browsers, so there was a lot of scope to answer either question.
But to look at the best? part. I gotta ask best for what?/ Otherwise it's a meaningless question like what is the best shop? or what is my best toe?.
Best for what could include:
Ya know, I just did a search here and gave up 'cos I know this same question came up elsewhere and I posted a link but can I find it now? No!
So, be prepared for lot's of reading [msdn.microsoft.com] and learning - The page you land at is just that, a landing page, look to the menu on the left, some of which are IE-only, some not, enjoy ;¬)
this same question came up elsewhere
Yeah, it comes up about every 60 days or so. I don't like to see IE totally bashed to a pulp every time. Yes the other browsers have nicer features and gimmicks, that's good.
But I think people get overly carried away.
I might flippantly say, 'If you have to ask, why are you arguing at all!'...but that would be flippant ;¬)Ya know, I just did a search here and gave up 'cos I know this same question came up elsewhere and I posted a link but can I find it now? No!
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand a word of that. I've never heard of the word "flippant" before, nor do I really understand what you are trying to say.
Then you'd end up here:
[infoplease.lycos.com...]
I don't like to see IE totally bashed to a pulp
Yes, it was a decent browser when it was first released. Just a bit old for what we want now with CSS standards and all.
NOTE:
Flippant
From m-w.com:
Main Entry: flip·pant
Pronunciation: 'fli-p&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: probably from flip
Date: 1605
1 archaic: GLIB, TALKATIVE
2 current: lacking proper respect or seriousness
That being said, I don't really see anything wrong with using IE as a browser of choice, it's just not my own personal choice. I certainly haven't meant to bash IE to a pulp (I'm happy when my sites are viewed -- use whatever you like to view them...just view them! Heh).
:)
Jordan
All I know is when someone asks for a site check or code verification, most of the comments that come back are, 'doesn't work in Opera, Moz Netscape etc...', rarely, 'doesn't work in IE.
That's because the majority of the web development community is stuck using IE. I could give you a long list of things that are not possible in IE, but what would the point be? Nobody cares because most people can't even see it. It seems that everybody thinks "oh, Eric Meyer's css/edge stuff is nifty, but my users won't be able to use it, oh-well."
Standards compliant browsers are just beginning to cause a ripple of adjustment in the web-development community. Will it turn into a crashing tsunami? Too early to tell, but they can either be a thorn in your side, or a stepping stone to web-design bliss. IE6 supports this standards stuff well enough to not get in the way too much, so its your choice.
Oh, and just to make this clear, the developers of IE don't care about you. The developers of Gecko, Opera, Safari, Konqueror, etc. are actually available for comment and will *gasp* fix bugs, or tell you where you went wrong (or where IE is broken)!
In fact, right now, I'm sitting on IRC with actual developers of Gecko. If they don't answer your questions, somebody else probably will, or at least point you to where you can find out for yourself. Try and get that kind of support out of MicroSoft.
