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I'd like to know the advantages/dis-advantages of using Flash? I know some...
Dis-advantages:
..any more?
Sid
-Can load extremely slow on Dial-up connections
-May cause some people to skip the site all together
-There is still a small percentage of the population who doesn't have the flash plug-in, nor do they wish to download it. Again, very small percentage according to Macromedia, but if part of them are your target market it is well worth noting.
Advantages:
-Can do things that you simply cannot do with HTML/CSS
-Extremely valuable when your target market is graphically oriented
-Can be used very effectively as a 'piece' of a traditional HTML site such as a banner or interactive graphic
More and more people will stop using the flash plugin as this becomes more mainstream.
Personally speaking I haven't had the plugin enabled for about a year now and I know plenty of others who have done the same so I do dispute MM claim that the user base is the high 90's.
Flash had the "wow" factor for a couple of years but now it tends to put people off a site imo.
Simon.
>>Search Engines do not follow links from a flash web page
Most do follow links to external pages in flash.
Flash had the "wow" factor for a couple of years but now it tends to put people off a site imo.
I think that it really all depends on how it's executed and if it serves the site in question. Flash and static HTML coding can make for a deadly site if it is done well. I ran across the most beautiful site last night ... it was a combination Flash/XHTML/CSS. Flash is here to stay but not just as a "showpiece". I think we'll be seeing a lot more of it as web services develop over the next few years.
Anyhow ... Flash:
Advantages:
-absolute freedom in "page layout"
-greater interactivity and control (ie. vector rendering, image scaling)
-improved intergration (ie. image types, sound)
-easier font handling (suddenly any font is "embeddable")
-no need to reload page
Disadvantages:
-the fact that it requires a plugin
-SEO issues
-print issues
-the "back button" issue
Also, thanks guys! I think I'll start on Flash ASAP..
Even though it has some dis-advantages with Search Engines..Who cares? At least the PR is still counted and the page title (in html) is still read..
Sid
This is the structure for a menu I use on my site. It allows a menu that highlights one item on the menu.
<div class="container"><div class="height">
<div class="inner_border">
<div class="align_text">
<a class="format_text">Page 1</a>
</div></div></div>
<div class="height">
<div class="inner_border">
<div class="align_text">
<a class="format_text">Page 2</a>
</div></div></div>
and so on...
This means the browser has to read all these tags, interpret them, then draw them on the screen. It should look similiar in all browsers but there might be that rouge user using opera 6.xx where a odd bug causes it to draw your menu in a funny way.
On the other hand, if you use flash to create the menu. All the browser needs to know is to reserve the width and height. The flash plugin will create the menu. This also means that the menu should look the same in every browser.
Here are my tips for using flash, just my personal preferences,
I like to use at least flash 6 because it allows me to compress my flash before sending. Which can really reduce file size. I also try to stick to using only device fonts whenever possible. This can really keep your file sizes small.
What IS a problem is that flash is one of those "techno-geekist" things that basically slaps the rest of the real world in the face with "SEE WHAT I CAN DO AND SUCKS TO YOU TOO!" Doesn't make a more usable site - quite the opposite in fact, and basically comes across as a 12-year old kid with a new toy....
Needless to say, I don't produce sites myself which use flash. Oh yeah - I can DO flash.... I'm as geeky as the next guy, I want to KNOW how it works. But I won't foist it off on an unsuspecting public....
Most people don't like Flash because:
But are you saying that you don't like flash because its too geeky - as in, too advanced and comprehensive; too good; theres too much competition?
Doesn't make any sense.
Sid
For the rest of the real world (85% of whom are still using dial-up), it's not only too slow, it provides nothing but silly geek-stuff.
Show me a site where flash is SO IMPORTANT to the actual USABILITY of the site that not having it would make the site a nothing.
You can stickymail me with an addy.
You are totally wrong. If I were to name the down-sides of flash (as a surfer), I would have only 1 thing in my mind: Speed.
What you call "silly geeky" stuff is actually "advanced revolutionized interfaced" stuff. So you think HTML is not geeky enough that a webmaster has to spend up to 10 hours designing a whole website, which ends up with just a normal "almost been done before" type design?
Where as, if he spends the same amount of time designing flash, he would end up with something so-unique and slick, that he would want to press the "F5" button at least 10 times. I'm not saying you can't come up with unique stuff in HTML, but in HTML, its very easy to classify the types of design a site has (using HTML).
Best of all, Flash is compatible with any OS, which has a compatible Web Browser and the web browser supports Macromedia. Where as, in HTML, I'd have to waste 8 more hours optimizing the site for 800x600 or maybe Mozilla compatible CSS code. God, such an headache. If you don't think speed is a big concern and the "advanced" interface is the biggest concern, I'm confused.
Sid
BTW, I sent you the list you wanted about sites that could not work without flash.
"Show me a site where flash is SO IMPORTANT to the actual USABILITY of the site that not having it would make the site a nothing."
That doesn't equate to your "BTW, I sent you the list you wanted about sites that could not work without flash."
MAJOR difference in semantics there....
Making sites which "can't work without flash" forces the surfing public to download and install plugins which they maybe don't want.
*shrug* You do your thing, I'll do mine. I don't personally consider flash "advanced revolutionized interface" stuff. I consider it geek-toy stuff. It's fun to play with - I believe I remember posting that I'm as big a geek as the next guy - but as far as USABILITY, it's fair useless.
Each to hisser own.
I absolutely refuse to load any page which starts with a flash ANYTHING
A sensible piece of advice posted somewhere hereabouts not long ago suggested not putting Flash on the first page that a user will see. Get your message onto the user's screen as quickly as possible. Once you've got them hooked you can use Flash, if necessary, to pull them in further.
Do you suggest that TV advertising companies stop using CGI in their adverts and simply say "here, corfnlakes, buy, eat, go away"? or maybe have some clever CGI stuff in the add....
I don't watch TV. I don't care what they do to sell whatever. TV isn't entertainment as far as I'm concerned. BOOKS are entertainment.
Basically, I'm saying that just because one CAN do something doesn't mean one SHOULD. Flash is geek-craft. Most of us normal folks use the web for information, research, and shopping. Why on EARTH (or any OTHER planet for that matter?) would we want some geek's idea of "blammo-super-duper-look-what-I-can-do-so-I-did" as the first thing we see when hitting a site? That of course begs the question of how many of "us" there are as opposed to how many of "you" there are. I haven't a clue, and I don't know that it matters.
Clean is mean.
A sensible piece of advice posted somewhere hereabouts not long ago suggested not putting Flash on the first page that a user will see. Get your message onto the user's screen as quickly as possible. Once you've got them hooked you can use Flash, if necessary, to pull them in further.
Very VERY sensible advice. I remember seeing it a while back, but had "lost" it since. Thanks for reminding me!
Personally flash irritates me, and I have it disabled by default. This is mostly because it tends to break a lot of my browsing habits. Also, learning each author's "cutting edge" UI every time I visit a new site is a bit frustrating, as flash sites don't tend to stick with common conventions.
All that said, if you are trying to design a site where the whole point is to present "mind blowing" animation and the like, by all means use flash. Just as long as you don't use it "because it's there."
It's just as easy to make a terrible site with straight html, so don't think flash is worse than any other tool.
Best of all, Flash is compatible with any OS, which has a compatible Web Browser and the web browser supports Macromedia.
Where as, in HTML, I'd have to waste 8 more hours optimizing the site for 800x600
or maybe Mozilla compatible CSS code.
The point is, although Flash will display the same on any browser that supports it, you're going to loose far more visitors by using Flash than you are by any possible browser incompatibilities that your site might entail.
Agree or disagree, too often "webmasters" use what's cool or new or exciting - to them, not the best tool or what's best for viewers - the whole reason to exist. Without viewers, your site has no reason to exist other than to satisfy personal ego.
Just some thoughts I'm passing along after some heavy discussions I was in on some other sites. Seems about half of even the webmasters in other areas were quick to question the real reasons to use it short of "showing off".
I went there with the intent to see if I should be learning and using it myself - I was going to use it! I was quickly shot down.
the people I target want content - they go to a site to read, to gather information or buy product, not to be entertained. The audience YOU are after MAY be different - they might love flash and want to be entertained by cool stuff. So the final choice is always yours.
I know I won't be using Flash for anything as I've been told flatly by my audience to not use it for anything. My HTML menus are plenty for them, fast and no load on the CPU and SE friendly and don't tax the dial-up connections most people in this country are still on. I also leave sites and don't even try when I hit a page that is blank because the author was so arrogant as to assume that I had Flash plugins and should be using them. They lost my business, I'm afraid. They don't even give a choice.
Guess I've been burned by Flash, and my computer taken to its knees too often by those who see it's "cool to use flash" and have no reason other than that, and by my viewers telling me not to use it myself.
Thus, I've been moved to the "non-flash side".
shadows papa
My peers, however, want content, text, good reading, information, then photos if items. I browse for information and the faster I can get it, the happier I am. I also run with about 4 to 6 browser windows or tabs (depending on broswer) at any given time, and about 4 to 6 other apps running at the same time. I don't need more overhead.
(>What if my vision is less than perfect? I can't change my personal style sheet or increase font size if you have it locked into flash images and animation. Much of the real world really does have visual issues.<)
I guess I just got burned too many times by arrogant young webmasters - who lack maturity and seem to believe the more gawdy color and animation, the better, who seem to believe the world is on T1 and running quad 3ghz processors and a terrabyte of ram and there are no people who have less than 20-20 and perfect color perception (there are no color-blind people) and who REALLY do wish to sit and wait for an animated intro before they can see content. There's another problem with some sites - if I go back I must sit through that same intro all over again.
Fortunately, those are the exception, but too many exist. I suspect that years ago, some of these "webmasters" would have all caps blinking red text at 24px on a blue background running left edge to right edge, no margins, some even forcing horizontal scroll. Now, they abuse Flash. Because "it's cool", and to show off their "coolness".
No, this is NOT aimed at anyone here, just observations after hitting waaay too many sites built by amateurs wanting only to show off what they can do. And searching for certain information for hours only to run into such sites and finding no real information or content. Somehow these sites seem to crowd the top 50 lists on Google. (I'll also guess that the average age of those "abusing" Flash is under 25.)
I know, there are GREAT sites that use Flash wisely. Those are truly art. Those people need to teach the majority how to properly apply it, then maybe I'll change my mind. Flash is an abused tool.
->So call me old and old-fashioned. I simply believe that simplicity and content and most of all, the CUSTOMER is king. Give them respect and speed.<-
That's all I have to say on that topic.
Shadows Papa
